[Doug]: Welcome to episode 28 of Feeling Through Live. I'm joined today by Chris Woodfill and Bryan Ward, two amazing guests who are going to be talking everything that has to do with National Disability Employment Awareness Month. And before we hop into all of that, I'd love for you guys to introduce yourself. So Chris starting with you, can you, can you give a quick introduction?
[Chris]: Sure. First of all, I do want to say I'm very honored to be involved. And this discussion again today with you, Doug, especially as it relates to NDEAM. Like you mentioned, my name is Chris Woodfill. I currently work as the associate executive director at Helen Keller National Center, which we refer to as HKNC. I've worked there for eight years now. Prior to that, I've worked as a teacher in the state of Wisconsin at the Wisconsin School for the Deaf. I was a teacher there for 13 years. And prior to that, I worked as an English as a second language teacher at Gallaudet University. I've had a lot of part-time jobs as well in the interim internships, various employment experiences from my teen years through today before I got my first full time job, which was at Gallaudet. I had a lot of internships and other things through school, and I know we'll get into some more of that later, so, I will stop there for now.
[Doug]: Great. And, Bryan, can you give everyone a quick introduction as well?
[Bryan]: Hi everybody. My name is Bryan Ward. My sign name is beyond the back of the hand. I want to say thank you to Doug for allowing me to join today. This is a great event and it's a great opportunity for us to celebrate National Disability Employment Awareness Month. I also work at HKNC. I've worked there for three and a half years. Now I'm the program coordinator for the New York Deaf-Blind equipment distribution program. It's also called New York ICC. I Can Connect. I went to college up in Rochester at RIT, and I've had different jobs there as a student. But after I graduated, I got this job at HKNC and I've been here since.
[Doug]: So, you know, there's a lot to get into, but I want to start with the basics. You know, Chris, I've known you now for about three years and one of the very first conversations we ever had, you told me that of, you know, the most important topic to you personally is disability employment. And, you know, specifically for the deafblind community, obviously the primary community that not only are you a part of, but that you work for. So I just want just to start things off for people who are maybe new to National Disability Employment Awareness Month, which we shorten to NDEAM, can you tell everyone a little bit more about what it's all about?
[Chris]: So the month of October, which was the month that was selected for is it is used to both recognize and celebrate the contributions of disabled people to the workforce. Another goal that they have is to educate about employment. And one of the big, one of the big aspects of NDEAM is to say that people with disabilities can be productive members of the workforce and can be an asset to companies. They can benefit organizations, and it does benefit organizations to hire people with disabilities. So NDEAM's goal is to really get the word out there throughout the country to educate about disability employment, and to also spread the message that disabled people can do great work, they can aid in production, they can contribute successfully to the workforce. They can help organizations accomplish their goals. They can do that in the government sector and in the private sector as well. Government sector and nonprofit. So that's really an important point. There are a lot of disability related organizations that do NDEAM related events. It becomes this really big push during month of October to get their names out there. Vocational rehabilitation agencies, which we say VR agency are one of the biggest proponents of NDEAM.
[Doug]: You know, Chris, some of this, what you touched on in there, and you know, I think to me as someone who obviously knew very little about the deafblind community and certainly the disability community at large, if I go back three years, prior to the heart of the Feeling Through journey and something that I know a lot of people who, or maybe where I was a few years ago, a lot of what your, the work that you do this month, and that Helen Keller Services in the Helen Keller National Center does this month is to educate people so that they, to rid them of their false assumptions that they might have about the capabilities of the deafblind community and any other disability community. And, you know, Bryan, my question to you about that is, you know, what are some of the false assumptions that you come across? As far as what, the ways in which people assume, you know, what you, you can't do or what the deafblind community can't do that are maybe the most common ones that, you know, you'd like to dispel right off the bat here on this episode today?
[Bryan]: This is Bryan signing. That's a great question. I want to mention two things. Many people hear the word disability, or that someone is disabled, and they automatically assume that there's something wrong with somebody. That's the first assumption that people make. And then when someone hears that someone is deafblind, they automatically assume that somebody is fully deaf and fully blind, which is not true often in the course of my job or in the course of a meeting peers and colleagues, they meet me and they realize, you know, I say that I'm deaf blind, I may say, but you can see me. I am legally blind. I don't have much peripheral vision. I can't see far away. I can't see at nighttime. And it takes a lot of explanation to get people to understand that blindness does not mean completely blind. Society is just not educated enough to understand the spectrum of what disability looks like. And I may be the first deafblind person that somebody has ever met. So they have to question those assumptions. So that's why it's really important to educate and clearly educate people. So that, that image that they get in their heads when they first hear a particular term, isn't the image that sticks.
[Doug]: Yeah. That's, you know, thanks for pointing that out, Bryan, and certainly that's something, you know, I'm one of those people that did not know that prior to getting to learn a lot about the deafblind community. You know, I didn't personally understand the wide spectrum of manifestation of deafblindness and the many different communication styles and everything that goes along with that. So thank you for pointing that out. You know, I think one of the best ways to start to break down, you know, erroneous assumptions about capabilities is to hear directly from people in both you, Chris, and you, Bryan, who are extremely capable, intelligent, and accomplished individuals who are deafblind. You know, I'd love maybe starting with Chris. Maybe if you could share a little bit about, you know, what it is you do on a day-to-day basis, and, you know, by extension, I think that'll fill in some people's understanding about, you know, one of the many things in which the deafblind community is very capable of doing. So can you tell us a little bit more about, you know, what it is you do at Helen Keller National Center on a day-to-day basis?
[Chris]: Sure. So I have a lot of responsibilities. The list is pretty exhaustive. So again, I'm the associate executive director, so my responsibilities kind of span the gamut of what HKNC does, but my day to day schedule varies a lot. It's not the same every day. So I'll start by saying that, but I'll give you a couple of examples, or just to give you a general understanding of what a day might look like. Part of my day always involves meetings. I have direct report staff. We just did some reorganizing at HKNC. So I can't remember at the moment exactly how many direct reports staff, I believe I have 13 or 14 staff that directly report to me. So I'll have meetings with one or several of those people throughout a day. I meet with all of them at least once a week, but each day the number varies. Most of the time now we meet virtually, I use my iPad and I have a zoom on there. We use Microsoft Teams. They have a video option on that platform as well that we'll use occasionally we'll use FaceTime. I'll use the video phone sometimes. I've got a lot of different options. One of my direct report staff is fully deaf and fully blind, which is like Bryan mentioned what a lot of people think of when they think of somebody who's deafblind. This person is that. So video is not an option. We have meetings over text message. So we have a time to chat where we don't get distracted by emails or other texts. It's just the two of us and we have this meeting via chat. Those meeting are anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour. In addition to those direct report meeting we have team meeting as well. I have a senior leadership meeting. I meet with my supervisor. There's people throughout the agency. Sometimes there's a meeting for a particular reason or particular event that's coming up that I have to attend the meeting for. I do a lot of emailing. To be a little bit more specific its really anything and everything. We used to be heavy paper users at HKNC and now a lot of things have transitioned to online. So I do requisition forms. I used to get a piece of paper for those. Now they're sent to me via email. I have to sign them electronically and email back. So the number of emails I have to deal with on a daily basis have gone up quite a lot. People ask permission to come to the center. We have protocols in place now with COVID. We need to make sure that there are not too many people on campus at any one time. So it's a lot of scheduling, a lot of rearranging, a lot of organizing. People may not understand, you know, that I do have vision issues and not understand how I can keep up with email. I use ZoomText and fusion, which are two computer programs. They're pieces of software that change the colors on my screen. Most people on their computers have a white backgrounds and, you know, black texts, which for me, it really jarring. I have it opposite where I have dark backgrounds and light colored texts. So it's a lot easier on my eyes. That's called inverting colors. And I also use something called ZoomText, which makes the fonts on everything a lot larger. There's a lot of things. One other thing I do want to mention, you know, I do a lot of documents, document editing and drafting documents. Same thing. I invert colors. I make the text larger. That's how I edit documents as well. And for another part of the day, I do report reviews. So people send me their reports because our staff is required to write a lot of reports. So I read those, give feedback, do report consolidation, sometimes have meetings to go over those reports. I do strategy planning. So part of my days involved in thinking and a lot of thinking, making notes, you know, I came up with this idea for a new department at Helen Keller called the Technology Research and Innovation Center, which we're calling TRIC. You know, we have to think about how that is going to operate and what that department's going to look like. So I do a lot of strategic planning there. I have to write job descriptions for the different positions that are coming up. We have to develop budget plans because people need equipment. So we need to budget for that. I do a lot of thinking on how we can do outreach, you know, to get our name out there, to get people coming in to the center for classes. I do interviews with people. So my day to day varies quite a lot. It's a really awesome job. I absolutely love it.
[Doug]: You know, we have our first audience question and, you know, Bryan, I'd love to start with you if you have any thoughts or an answer to this question. I know, Bryan, in connecting with you I know you're someone who has multiple degrees and this question is about education. So perhaps you might have something to say on it. But Nilam asks, how do we address the need for accessibility at schools in helping with better employment opportunities later on? Do you have anything to say about that, Bryan?
[Bryan]: This is Bryan signing. First of all, I'm very, very proud of where I graduated from. I got three degrees from there. My associate's, my bachelor's and my master's degree. And one of the reasons that I'm so proud of RIT is because they were very accessible to me. It was a great place to be. I learned a lot. They encourage you to make mistakes and, you know, learn from those mistakes. And it was also a place where I could build my skills that I would effectively lead to a job. They also helped me learn what was available for me and what would work and what wouldn't, you know, when I go into the job, I need to figure out what accommodations are going to be right for me and which ones aren't.
[Doug]: And a follow-up question to that is, and Chris, I I'd love for you to answer this follow-up question, which is how do you get the ADA to help with accessibility and tech modifications at work?
[Chris]: So I mentioned working at three places, one being Gallaudet University, one being Wisconsin School for the Deaf, the third being Helen Keller National Center, all three of those organizations. Well, let me back up for a second. So Gallaudet is really designed to support deaf people. They do have some deafblind students as well. Wisconsin School for the Deaf is very similar. HKNC, is very deafblind oriented. All of those organizations are very, very aware of the ADA. They're also very knowledgeable about accessibility and accommodations. So for me, I've been lucky in that I really have never had to fight that hard to get any sort of accommodations. I've had to have discussions with supervisors and explain what I need and why I need those things. But it has never been a fight. I can tell you one story about that. Like one of my toughest experiences throughout my 24 years, I would say, this is one of the toughest. The problem did eventually get resolved, but I was a teacher at Wisconsin School for the Deaf. My vision had already started to decrease at that time. I would say I could probably see two or three students at a time. I could not see the entire classroom unless I turned my head and I had one particular class and that class was for a lot of students that were pretty troubled, troubled youth. They had various challenges. Some of them had emotional challenges. Some of them had behavioral challenges. Many of them had anger management issues. And I remember one student got very angry during class and lost his temper. So I was trying to calm the student down. And while I was trying to calm the student down, another student left the classroom and I didn't see them do it. And they left the school and they went off campus. I had no idea because I couldn't see them out of my peripheral vision. My principal came into the room and he knew that, you know, he knew that I was dealing with this one particular student, but tapped me on the shoulder and said, where's Johnny? Obviously that's not the student's name, but I looked and went, oh my gosh, I don't know. I don't know. I was busy with this other student and I didn't see anything and one of the other students went, oh, he left, he went downtown. He went to smoke. So I, you know, didn't really feel great about myself after that happened. My principal was very good. You know, I knew that he knew that I had Usher syndrome. I knew that I had Usher syndrome and the principal said to me, you know, what do you need in order to make sure that doesn't happen again? So it took some thinking on my part. And I said, you know what? I need a second person in the classroom. Someone that could watch the entire room and let me know if there's, chaos in one corner, or if someone tries to leave the room, if there were having a second person there, that student wouldn't have been able to leave without anybody knowing. Now there are several deafblind employees that work under me at HKNC. And I have learned from the principal to ask them, what do you need in order to make yourself more successful? What do you need in order to make it easier to do your job? And that principal was hearing-sighted, but was sensitive and respectful enough to understand what my hearing and vision were like. You know, some of my employees needed additional equipment, some need different kinds of support as far as another employee's assistance. But you kind of have to take these challenges as they come one by one. As far as the ADA, again, it's been very rare that I've needed to sort of threaten anybody with the ADA. I've worked in places like I said that are very, very aware of the laws, but I know other deafblind people have not had that experience. And sometimes they do have to use the ADA. If that does happen, it's important to have the specific verbiage there to show HR wherever it is that you're working to say that these things are you're entitled to.
[Doug]: I'm going to take just a quick pause for an interpreter switch. Alright. So continuing here, yeah, Chris, you touched on a lot of great things in there. Certainly something that you touched on in there that comes up time and time again on this platform is individuals in the disability community and really any marginalized community, but we're talking about the disability community, acquiring that skill of speaking up and making known what certain needs are in a situation. And also on the other side, educating people to ask about that, right? Because you're someone who is deafblind yourself, so you have the knowledge and wherewithal to ask your employees what they need. Certainly there are employers who aren't deafblind who aren't disabled who might now think of the simple thing of asking their employees with disabilities what if any considerations there might be for them to be aware of? So that's just kind of brings me into my next question here. It's for Bryan. And I'm wondering, Bryan, do you have any, you know, personal stories that come to mind around that topic of maybe a time where you experienced a certain barrier or where you were in a place where someone, where an employer or an entity wasn't providing you some sort of accessibility that you had to speak up about? Are there any kind of anecdotes that come to mind around that topic for you?
[Bryan]: This is Bryan speaking. I've had a ton of experiences even after I was in graduate school, and other areas, but one thing that really tends to happen is, you know, I, well, first of all, I really kind of take a more proactive approach. And I speak with my employer first about what my accommodations are and what I need. I am a workaholic that is just my nature. But, you know, sometimes, I noticed that sometimes on the job I get little stressed out or I'm not realizing what my issues are. So, you know, that's when I have to kind of take a step back and really take a look at, you know, why am I getting kind of stressed out? Is it something that is, I just need a little bit of an accommodation for, and that's where I have to kind of reevaluate and maybe speak with an employer about what my needs are. I think the biggest thing, my biggest takeaway is you really have to be careful of your attitude and it's all about your approach. It should be more of a team effort when approaching an organization or an employer. You really have to be willing to compromise and work with them and have a positive attitude and really be able to work with them. Don't be nervous when asking for your accommodations either again, if you're experiencing challenges on the job, you need to be able to speak up and ask for that accommodation to make it a little bit more special and accessible, even in, you know, the college setting, you know, your ultimate goal is to get that degree. So you need to make sure that, you know, what's working for you and not to be stressed out over the little things, ask for what you need. If it's not suiting your needs, sometimes you have to kind of figure out what you can do. For example, you know, in my profession right now, there's a lot of travel. I can't drive. I don't have a driver's license. So now I have to think about other other ways, you know, for individuals that maybe part of their job is to actually answer phones. We have video phones. So, you know, we have to really kind of identify what we essentially need and come up with alternative solutions and being able to openly talk to the people about these. That's the only way to really be able to succeed. I was able to graduate from my program, find a good job, but you really have to focus in on, you know, essentially, what it is that you need. And also, you know, kind of come up with alternative solutions, you know, I can't drive, you know, so I have to come up with other ways to go about that. And again, in having those discussions with your employer, you have to have a positive attitude, be flexible. And also, you know, when you're applying for your job, you know, or sending in your resume, be up front about that, tell them what you, what you need. And open up that discussion. You know, don't be afraid that you're gonna automatically be turned down from that position, you know, apply for the job, go through the, the process. You know, unfortunately, sometimes, you know, you are actually, or we did that because you're labeled, you identify as deafblind, but you have to really explain to them your skills, show them that you are qualified for that, as well as educating them. A lot of times that you have these experiences where the employer doesn't understand what deafblind means, and you need to be able to clearly articulate it and also how you can successfully do the job.
[Doug]: That makes me think of, you know, Chris and Bryan, you know, you obviously both work for the Helen Keller National Center, an organization that's not just aware of, you know, whatever accessibility needs you might have, but in an organization that advocates for that. What about all those people with disabilities that don't work for an organization that has anything to do with the disability community? You know, I guess Chris, my question around that specifically first to you is, you know, what would you say to an employer at any organization that's not affiliated with the disability community, who has reservations about hiring someone with disabilities? What would you say to that potential employer?
[Chris]: I believe in and positive feedback and with that positive approach. With diversity and inclusion I think that's really great for an organization. Each individual with a disability has unique gifts and skills, and now you have to figure out how to capitalize on those unique skills. And once you do, they will benefit your company. One common comment that I often hear, and it's about a specific disability, autism, is there specific or unique quality is that they really kind of hone in on a task and they may excel within whatever it is that, you know, really that they kind of hone in on, but they do an amazing job. So you really have to take a look at the person as a whole, what are their skills, what are their unique qualities, and where are the areas that they really excel in. Now, taking a look at an individual who is deafblind, we tend to really hone in on the fact that a lot of deafblind employees are loyal employees. Their tendencies are once they are hired, they are committed 100% to their job and they will stay with that employer for a very long time. There's not a lot of turnover with deafblind employees. So for an employer, you know, we really kind of explained to them that you're not going to have a lot of turnover. Their dedication is they put in a 100% of themselves. They fully invest themselves into the organization and the company, and they love to work. So we kind of take a look at those skills to try to allow or convince employers, to give them a chance. They tend to, also statistics show that they are more productive within the workplace as well. There are some tax benefits for employers that hire individuals with disabilities, there's actually tax benefits and other incentives. So we do educate employers on the different incentives and benefits. You have different write-offs and whatnot. So we do educate employers on that. Also, any accommodations that are provided are also considered a tax write off. So there's a lot of perks to hiring individuals with a disability. So there's all those pros, as well as the diversity within the workplace, the loyalty of your employee, the higher productivity of the work that they provide. And this is feedback that we've actually received from employers over the years. And oftentimes some of their feedback is they never realize how great or incredible a job the deafblind employee will provide once hired. So, and then also realizing all the benefits of that employee as well. So that's that.
[Doug]: Yeah. You know, what's so great in what you said there is so often the narrative around inclusion is some sort of group that's on the inside, letting in people who are on the outside. And then what becomes problematic with that, and the ways in it's becoming a little bit outdated is that that also means that when you look at it through that way, you're looking through a lens of there's people on the inside who are better and more capable and there's people on the outside who we're just kind of letting into our world because, you know we're being all good and nice and allowing for that. What you've so aptly just pointed out is a very different narrative. You know, one in which it's not just about creating accommodations and accessibility to allow those with disabilities to work in the workplace or have accommodations anywhere else. In fact, they're actually not only amazing employees, but oftentimes better employees in cases than people without disabilities. So when you start to highlight that, you start to have a very different understanding of what's going on here. So now it's not just about creating accessibility because, you know, okay, the ADA is twisting our arm or, okay, I guess it's the right thing to do. It's also about doing it because your company is going to benefit from that. You're going to be a better organization in many different ways, in the ways that you aptly pointed out. And, you know, Bryan, I'm wondering if you have anything to add to that topic, the topic of the fact that accessibility for those with disabilities isn't just about doing it because if the ADA is twisting the arm of an employer, but because employees with disabilities offer great value to whatever organization they're working with. Do you have anything else to add to that part of the topic?
[Bryan]: Yes, I do. Really, Chris and I, great minds think alike. So I'm really kind of on the same thought processes him. It is, you know, personally, I have seen within organizations who have hired individuals with disabilities, we ask them for their perspective. And often we do say that they do come back with the positive feedback of how productive they are and how amazed they are. And often, once individuals hire one individual with a disability, they tend to hire more because they realize what great employees they are. However, sometimes you have to really kind of think outside of the box and come up with really creative ideas and ways for the individuals to be able to perform the same and perform the duties of the job. And I think it improves essentially the health of that agency as well as the people that surround them and other staff that are on the job. I feel like it inspires everybody.
[Doug]: So, another question we have from Debra. Hi, Debra. Nice to see you again. Debra asks, and I guess Chris, I'll start with you on this question. Debra asks, when do you let the employer know that you need accommodations? When you send the resume and cover letter or during the first interview, or at some other point? What would you say to that, Chris?
[Chris]: This is Chris speaking. That's a great question, Deborah. So the concept of disclosure is a very hot topic right now within the employment field for individuals with disabilities. And it's an individual preference. Some individuals are very open and forthcoming with that information and can also essentially have that same effect as just essentially checking the box. And what do I mean by checking the box? It's essentially, you know, on an application, they'll say, Oh, do you have a criminal background? And they'll have those essentially where you check these boxes off, in the like disclosure. Some employers, you know, once they see that, you know, that box checked, they automatically get rid of your application. So some individuals choose to not say anything until they have the interview. Some individuals choose to disclose that information during an interview process. And during the interview process, you can not actually discriminate or dismiss an individual with a disability at that time. Some individuals that are deaf or deafblind don't always disclose it right away. When I was a teacher in the Wisconsin School for the Deaf, as well as Gallaudet University it was a little bit different. I did graduate with two master's degree from Gallaudet University and, you know, sometimes, you know, people like, for example, like my degrees are what they are. And I may not always disclose all that information about where I went to school because that automatically identifies me. So sometimes some people choose to not always essentially add in personal information about where you went to school to automatically essentially out yourself. Some people feel that that could be, you know, a barrier, if you do identify that right away in getting that job. And they will hold that information until the interview process. Again, if you do experience discrimination at that time that you feel that you did not get the job due to your disability, then you have, you can file a suit against them for a case of discrimination. So it is kind of more of an individual preference of how they want to navigate those waters. And again, we do always have that discussion of disclosure with our consumers and working in training with them, for the interview process. Again, it's a personal preference as to when they choose to disclose it.
[Doug]: Question for Bryan. You know, we now know from this conversation that there are certainly a lot of employers out there who don't understand the capabilities of many people in the disability community and how oftentimes they can be better employees than people without disabilities for the reasons we went into. So how do we bridge that gap and understanding? What can people who are watching right now do to help fix the problem of that lack of awareness and lack of understanding?
[Bryan]: That's a great question. I think the most important thing that we can do is educate. Share your resources, share your knowledge with employers, organizations, maybe new disabilities, that you have encountered or learned about, you know, talk about them, spread that awareness. Again, like myself, I do have my personal responsibility of sharing my information and sharing, you know, information about the disability because that education is power. That's what really creates change. We have a lot of resources where we provide webinars and trainings, and also just even learning about new technology right now is a huge resource that, you know, creates that level of accessibility and equality. So having that open discussion, talk about it, share your knowledge, create an environment where individuals want to learn. Again, this isn't something that you just learned about one time and you take one training. This is a life long learning experience. Talk to one another, learn, ask questions. Don't be scared about asking questions. You don't know what you don't know. So you have to ask individuals about their disability and understand it to be able to really create change.
[Doug]: You know, Chris, similar question to you, but I'm wondering, you know, for people who are watching right now, who now may be understand, maybe already knew about this, or maybe learning about a lot of what we're talking about for the first time, what can they do to help increase employment for the disability community and awareness around the diverse capabilities of the disability community?
[Chris]: Another great question. Again, many individuals with disabilities do seek employment with the help of VOC rehab and VR agencies. VR is a great resource to be able to connect with. They have a lot of business relations. They have a business relationship as specialists get in contact with their business, relations specialists and that individual can talk about different, could guide to different resources and a lot of the how to. So if you have a company, you are an employer you can get in contact with VR and their business relations specialist. There's also local disability organizations as well as other affiliates. So there are some vocational based services, socially based services and organization, but again, there are resources they are placed to really get in contact with to find out more information for, you know, other organizations and agencies that are available. So there's always those types of organizations close to where you work. Right now, everything has moved to an online platform. And again, you can do just general research on online, go to, um, www.ada.gov. They have a lot of information that is posted on their website as well, and other resources that is available there, and that is provided by our government. So again, that's www.ada.gov. So maybe your initial response would be like, oh, I don't know. I don't know what to, I don't know where to start. That's okay. There's a lot of information out there. You just have to look. Get in contact with one community agency. They are going to be more than happy to help you. If you are looking on how to be able to provide with appropriate accommodations, reach out to them, it's okay. Everybody's willing to help again. Remember that hiring somebody with a disability will benefit your organization.
[Doug]: So question for Bryan, certainly we're talking about ways in which we can improve upon disability employment as a whole by, you know, raising more awareness around the capabilities, correcting people's false assumptions around that. I want you in your imagination to take a moment to walk forward in some future world where a lot of this has been bettered. What does that look like to you? How would you describe that? What is it, what is like progress like really significant look like to you?
[Bryan]: Hmm. Well, right now in 2020, we have a lot to do we do since the pandemic. I think that really was something where everybody had to kind of take a step back and reevaluate and from the pandemic and from this experience, I think the biggest takeaway is that I really hope that we can grow from here. It's something I feel, I really hope that everybody just continues learning, start networking, open up, talk to people, ask questions, look at different agencies, such as VR. And I think everybody needs to set their own goals of what they want to do and go ahead and move forward. And hopefully we can, everybody can essentially set goals moving forward to make improvements.
[Doug]: So with our final minute here, Chris, I'd love for you to bring us home in this episode. I guess, completely open platform for you with the last minute here. However, you'd like to close this discussion, please, the microphone is yours.
[Chris]: Really. The final comment that I essentially want to make to the world is that individuals with disabilities are a valued member of the community. They are productive members of the community, and they can contribute to society. But that's, if you allow us to. Again, the key is you have to allow us to take down those barriers. People with disabilities can, they can do. It's just overcoming those barriers and they can be effective members of society. Thank you.
[Doug]: Well, I can't think of a better message to wrap up this episode. I know there's so much more we could discuss, but I'm really glad to engage in the conversation we did today. A huge thank you to Chris and Bryan for joining us today. Really, really, really insightful and great commentary you had on this subject. And thank you for all of you who tuned in. As always, we'll be back next week with another episode of Feeling Through Live, same time, same place. And I also want to remind you all this Sunday is an amazing opportunity to be a part of The Feeling Through Experience, which is taking place at 12:00 PM Pacific time, 3:00 PM, Eastern time. If you don't know what that is, it's our three part event that includes Feeling Through, the first film to star a deafblind actor, Robert Taragno. The second part is a making of documentary that follows the process of making the film. And you'll see Chris makes a couple of appearances in that documentary. And lastly, it includes a panel discussion and Q&A. On Sunday, we'll also be talking, we'll not just be talking about the film, but be continuing our conversation around disability employment being that this month is National Disability Employment Awareness Month. So what better way to use that time? So if you haven't already sign up at feelingthrough.com/register for your free ticket, we can't wait to see you there and certainly see you back here again next week for another episode of Feeling Through Live. Thank you. Have a great weekend and week ahead. Bye everyone.