[Doug]: Welcome to Episode 32 of Feeling Through Live.
[Deborah]: That's my age, I'm 32.
[Doug]: Oh, well what are the chances, look at that.
[Deborah]: I'm kidding.
[Doug]: We’re already off to a great start here.
[Deborah]: Are you kidding?
[Doug]: You know, Debra, I'm so excited to be able to talk to you really at any time, but today especially because it's the day after the media access awards, which were last night, which were incredible.
[Deborah]: Thank you.
[Doug]: And I'm so excited to talk about not just the awards itself, but the history around it, your involvement, and, you know, a lot of amazing things that you've been able to do. I'm going to read just a little bit about you real quick, but then I'd love to hear from you, but just for everyone. And again, it'll be better in your words, Debra, but the media access awards are dedicated to the accurate portrayal and employment of people with disabilities in all media and, Debra in addition to being the chair and producer of that award show, she's also the chair of the diversity committee, for the producers Guild of America.
[Deborah]: Sorry, was till last year.
[Doug]: Sorry, I was reading an old bio for you there.
[Deborah]: I know, It's my fault.
[Doug]: So it was, are you still the chair of the Women's Impact Network? Are you still part of that?
[Deborah]: No, that's, you know, actually, the Producers Guild has gone through a restructuring of all the committees. So while I did that for about 14 years now, it's everything is under one committee called the One Group. So it's an umbrella thing and the media access really has now is so much of my focus that I, yeah,
[Doug]: And on that note is a very serious undertaking, but why don't you in your own words tell everyone what the media access awards is.
[Deborah]: So the media access awards, was launched, created by Norman Lear and a producer named Fern Field in 1979. And it was to celebrate the portrayal of disabilities in media, but if you think back, or if you think of 1979, there was no disabilities in media. So there was very little to celebrate and, they were just really ahead of their time. And, you know, but still the awards existed for many years, but eventually people moved on and, the funding was lost and sort of the media acts had ceased to exist. And in 2010 as I, the producers Guild of America diversity chair, together with my counterparts of the different guilds we had done the first ever, sort of coming together of the guilds when we did, the women's international day in 2010. And it was such a great experience of collaboration where the writer came from the writers skill, the producer came from the Producers Guild. The actors came from SAG-AFTRA, it was directed by someone from Directors Guild. So it was a really organic and amazing collaboration. And we said, what else can we do? And October was coming up and we said, you know, what about disabilities? And we decided to do a one-off of the Media Access Awards, but, you know, it was a breakfast at the Peninsula Hotel here in Los Angeles. And, you know, each Guild put up, I don't know, $500 or a thousand dollars. And we rented the room, we got some coffee, some bagels, and we xeroxed the program. And as I'm sitting there and just watching this thing happen, I realized I was hooked and that was 11 years ago. And, I really, that was my first major involvement with disabilities advocacy. And I realized that there was a lot I could do for that. And there was a lot I wanted to do. And, you know, my husband had passed away in 2008 and he had cancer. And I remember how, you know, the sicker, he got, the more ostracized he got, and it was just like, it all came together in my head. And I thought, this is something I really have to do. And now it's turned into a very big event. And you know, and besides the yearly award celebration, we also do, we do, we wrote a best practices guide for the writers Guild in terms of like how to what's allowed by law on not when you're interviewing a writer with a disability, how to accommodate people with disabilities on the set. And, you know, it's a 10 page manual and makes it really easy for people to read and understand. We have also, partnered up with the Black List and the writers Guild disabilities committee, where we do an annual list of the best unproduced scripts that have a character with disabilities as one of the main characters. We do a series of online interviews, just the series of things and why we're focused on media is because I come from producing and my partner, Alan Rucker comes from writing, and this is what we understand. We also understand the power of media, when you sort of make something you bring images and storylines and characters into your own home. They become your family and thus not strangers anymore. And we believe that we can impact society by creating responsible content that really stood up normalized, the disability experience.
[Doug]: Yeah, beautifully put and you know I'm just curious because I want to get much deeper into all those topics you just brought up, but kind of before we get into that, I'm just curious to learn a little bit more about kind of your personal journey to get here and kind of what brought you into this space or how you really got involved in this space?
[Deborah]: Well, I mean it's like I said, it was like I really had to come from caring for someone for two and a half years through their fight for survival. I had been in many hospitals in different States and I had seen people do the same, and I saw how lonely it is when people are ostracized, and that really touched me deeply. And I am from Brazil and my family is a Jewish family in Brazil. They came from Eastern Europe. So I've been always a little bit on the outside, although, you know, just because of my personality, I never feel like, you know, it's like if somebody has a right, I have a right to, and period, but I realize that that's just my personality, not everyone is the same way. And sometimes people need advocates because, and I'm not better or worse than anybody. It's just the personality, you know? I'm just like I have a big mouth. So, you know, it's just a matter of personality. So I thought, I can use my big mouth for something, something that, I think it's really, really important. And you know, and that first year, when we did the media access awards back in 2010, it was just so amazing because I saw, you know, young people with disabilities, seeing themselves on a tiny stage being celebrated for their accomplishments. And I realized how important that was because we were helping those young people see themselves reflected, celebrated, and represented. And back in 2010, even there was such little representation. I mean, when we wanted to award people with a media access award, we were like digging really deep to find a writer or a producer, a director, a casting director, an actor who deserved to be awarded. I mean, it was really hard. There was like, Oh, you know, this is not exactly right, but that's what we need to do to get it moving. And amazingly, now we have, you know, it's like, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? Oh, now let's look at that. So there's a lot more, a lot more shows, a lot more movies, a lot more directors, a lot more writers, a lot more content for us to work at, which is amazing and really rewarding. But you know, 11 years ago it was like this really, we really need to call attention to the lack of representation of people with disabilities in media. There's very, there's like 1% and this is the largest minority, not just in the United States, but in the world. And if people don't see themselves reflected on television or film, they don't exist. This is the way we create culture. This is the way we create society. If we don't create tools for people to also participate in the exchange of, you know, points of view and life experience, we are robbing ourselves from a very rich existence. Every time we are allowed to step into someone else's shoe, we, we grow in our own personal lives and experiences. So it was like a lose lose for everyone, lose, lose for people that didn't see themselves represented in lose for the general audience that was being robbed from seeing and sharing experiences that were outside of their life scope. So anyway, that all of that I've just made me, you know, every year more and more sort of like figure out ways to get the message out, to get people involved. And, you know, I'm really be passionate about, you know, sort of changing the landscape.
[Doug]: Yeah, you know, I obviously, I've been, you know, feeling fulfilling through platforms has been like the biggest part of my life over the last couple of years and have learned a lot through that process and certainly making a film that stars an actor with a disability, I've learned, it's been like a masterclass for me these last few years in learning about this space. And there's a lot of things that you just pointed out that are, that are so clearly important as to why we need more representation for any marginalized group, but particularly the disability community, which makes up like, you know, nearly a quarter of our population yet it's like 5% of characters on the screen. I'm in that, I think that number is starting to change a little bit, but like has been historically a tiny fraction of the characters that we see portrayed in film and TV. And then of those characters, such a small percentage have been played by actors with disabilities, which again is starting to change. But, but we're still far away from where we need to be. But I just think of as just purely from a storytelling standpoint, you know, as someone who, for me, at least in my stories, I always want my stories to reflect the world that we live in. And it feels so false to not include people who make up a large percentage of the people who you're going to encounter and who are around you. So I think just from that standpoint as well, and then there's something else that, you know, I know it is something that's really important to media access awards, which is not just the representation. It's how are those, how are those characters being represented in and are they being played authentically and are actors with disabilities getting the opportunity to play characters with disabilities? Can you talk about, a little bit about kind of the historically the function of characters with disabilities and how that feels like it's really starting to change, but can you, can you go a little bit into the app?
[Deborah]: Well, I mean, you know, in the past, and this is just something that, it's not necessarily malicious, but it's just out of ignorance. Writers used to create characters when they were characters with disabilities that were either inspirational or, you know, sort of drunks and addicts, people wanting to commit suicide. And it was like, you know, the extremes of those two types of representation. And while there are people with disabilities that are depressed as there are people of color that are depressed as there are people, you know what, it's not a mandatory quality of a person with disabilities. And it's only a projection of the able-bodied people on to people that have disabilities. And again that's not a malicious projection, it's just out of ignorance because when we think of disabilities, the normal thinking is doing something wrong or a person with disabilities is less than, and it's difficult for someone who is not disabled to think that's just who that person is. You know, they're not, they're not, you, they're not, you know, this is who they are and they're complete and complex and, you know, and beautiful and ugly and happy and sad, like every other human being, and we all have our distinct experience. So that's something that we really fight against, which is this notion people with disabilities exist. Do we inspire us into seeing that our lives after all aren't so bad, and it's really the object objectification of someone with disabilities. And again, that's not made, you know, that's not malicious behavior, it's just out of ignorance. So we really tried to educate people that you're just you're are, it's the reflection of your thoughts. It's not the reality. You know, each person has their own experience of life and you cannot, you know, just because you're different, you can't think in those terms. And it's interesting because a friend of mine saw a very close friend of mine, saw the media access yesterday, and we are very close and he said, I loved it. It was all perfect. But I really feel like it was, you should have had a song that's of hope of inspiration. And I said, exactly because of what you just said yeah. That we don't have that it was an award show. It was not meant to inspire everybody. It was just meant to be funny, moving in interchange, it's not inspirational, got to get that away from people's thoughts of disability, sort of the connection of those, those words. So, you know, the media access really cares about the portray of disabilities. And we really, really tried to make a point that you did not, you know, people with disabilities are complex, inependent, whole people that have different experiences. And it's not for the existence or the benefit of someone who is not disabled.
[Doug]: Yeah, absolutely. And I think what's so interesting about storytelling it's so contextual, right? So it's like we're operating in a context where there's for so long, there's been so little representation for this community. The representation for a quite a long time was as you were pointing out in really in the specific ways you did not accurate or helpful often, and the hope is that, and I think what the media access awards does so well in, in not just highlighting achievements, for people with disabilities throughout media, but the way in which you put on the awards show, which is just like any other high level award show, it's not like it's the actual presentation of, it's not like, Oh, here's the disability award show. And let's like, let's like you said, have inspiring music. Like, you know, it's like, no, it's a high level award show for people with disabilities and stories about people with disabilities, but it's more about like that high level award show, just like any other high-level award show like that parody, but, you know, likeness to that, you'd see from the Oscars or the golden Globes, you know, and I think it's important for people who maybe are coming to the disability community and in this case, the disability community and media for the first time, and to have it look like other award shows they're familiar with, and to start to go like yeah it's not, it's not really that different from anything else, you know, and I think you do such a great job of how you put that on.
[Deborah]: That is like my number one goal. This is an award show. How do you do an award show? You have to have entertaining acts. So I put this one, I went to two people that I think are amazing. Evan Ruggieno in New York was an incredible tap dancer. He happens to have one leg, but he's an incredible tap dancer. And it was in a, he sings. And, you know, and we created this thing about being on a rooftop and then being in a bar, you know, so it's like, it's super entertaining. And then Alan Silva, my, my fellow country, man, he's also from Brazil and he was in America's got talent. This last season, he was one of the five finalists. And when I saw his act or was like, I want him in the media access to award, it's beautiful. You know it's just like he is an Acrobat, an aerialist, and it's a beautiful act. And we're not making any concession for the fact that he's a little person, it's a beautiful act to a tall personal, little person, fat person, skinny person. None of that matters just a beautiful entertaining act. And that's what we want to do. Amazing entertaining acts. And then, you know, our host Nyle, DiMarco whose Dad was an amazing host. It's like impeccable, he's beautiful to look at. He is poised to be, he's so self-assured, he was amazing. And, you know, and then we give people tools to watch the show. It's all open caption and audio described. So, it's no big deal. We're just creating great content. And then we're making sure everyone who is interested has the ability to enjoy it.
[Doug]: And, you know, this year was, was clearly very different from years past in that you had to move everything virtual and, you know, obviously being someone, myself, I have a lot of respect for anyone who pulls off a high-level virtual event, doing a lot of these live streams and virtual events myself. I mean, you really did such a tremendous job. It was impeccable and look beautiful from start to finish and was so smooth. Can you talk about, you know, what went into this year specifically, knowing that it was such a different experience from years past?
[Deborah]: I mean, I knew, so when I do these shows, I have to. Press responds to celebrity, press does not respond to causes usually, press does not respond to writers or directors or producers. They respond to actors. So I always try to get some name actors because I want the press to write about the media acts so that the message gets out there, and then obviously honor and celebrate talent with disabilities. So it's always, you know, sort of putting these pieces together and that is any year just trying to sort of unite the idea of getting the message out there, you know, and also the sponsors want to make sure that a lot of people see their names and I want the sponsors to come back next year. So there is sort of a success attached to this because I want to continue to do this. And that's just reality, like it or not, it is the way it is. And also I want to always do something that is really good and respectful and has integrity. So these, all of these things have to come together. And then I knew that most people will be home. So I knew that presenters and recipients of the awards would be home and I would have to capture them like, you know what we're doing now, peer zoom or via some other app. So I thought the only way I'm going to get some production value is by getting a host to be on a stage. And when I started thinking about that, I thought, Oh, the host will be alive and we'll be cutting back to the host live. And then I thought, no, it's insane because the internet goes down and we all screwed. So let's then produce this as if we were producing a television show. So it's all prerecorded we'll go live when it's strange, but it will all be pretty coordinated. Once I decided that I wanted either a green screen stage or I wanted an LED stage. So I wanted to use like the greatest technology available out there to create, you know, a Kodak theater at Lincoln center, you know, have brains that production value to those elements, to the host, to the state, because I knew that's where I would get the production value. So I started calling them round and visiting different studios in Los Angeles. And then I came across this amazing and actually was a referral from my editor, Jenny Gold. And she, who's also a person with disabilities and I've been working with her for, God seven or eight years now, but we have a great working relationship. And have you checked out the studio castle studios now? Like I said, no, I went there and I was like, this is it. This is it. It's a green screen, but it's a real time green screen. So you create an environment. And then as you're shooting, you are seeing how the person is relating to that environment. It's not done in post-production. And it's really amazing. And I worked with the artists at the studio and we created the environment. So it seems like there's a lot of, I always say I'm all for bling. I'm always for bling. I think bling is good. So, you know, we put a lot of blamed on this set and a lot of colors and made it look like really big. And I think that's where our production value came from. And then I always have, entertaining or entertainment in media access. And so I've thought about two acts and, I went to Vegas and I shot Alan doing his aerial act. And then, in New York, I hired another group to shoot that because I could drive to Vegas from LA and New York was a bit much, you know, being that we're all locked up. And so we designed the performance over zoom. And when we agreed on locations and everything else, we just had that shot. And yeah, and we really worked hard on putting, so the video packages of the work of the recipients and really finding the, the scenes and, and the episodes that reflected why they, we were honoring them. And I think it all worked, it was just a very, you know, blast experience.
[Doug]: Let's just take a quick pause for an interpreter switch.
[Deborah]: Okay.
[Doug]: All right, all set, great. Continuing here. Yeah, that was, everything looked so great, but that live green screen backdrop, interactive backdrop for Nyle DiMarco was, was incredible. It looked so great. And again really, these are the things that elevate this award show to the award shows that, you know, everyone's been familiar with for a long time, like the Oscars and the golden Globes, it's that attention to detail and that level of execution, you know, that really elevates something like the Media Access Awards into that arena. And you know I think what we'll see, I know in the last 10 years since you've revived it, I know it's grown tremendously from that first one that you talked about, when you got it back up and going, and I'm sure over the next 10 years, it's only going to grow so much more to the point where, I think, people are going to continue to tune in larger numbers. And I think people are going to start thinking about it in a very similar way to like other, a major award shows that they've been familiar with for a long time. And I think, again, it's the prestige that you brought to it that in this case is so important. You know, a lot of times, you know, we, I know in a lot of responses we've gotten, you know, for Feeling Through, as you know, and anyone who's done any sort of film or TV where there's really positive and, you know, well, an authentic representation for characters with disabilities, you know, people get, are really praised the fact that it's like really elevating a community from a media standpoint that was previously not represented at all, and really not found again, Robert being the first deaf blind actor in a film to start in a film that was completely non-existent in how important it is. A lot of people in the community reflect back to us how important it is to not only have that representation, but have it in a way that's, you know, executed and exhibited in a really like on a really high level so that, people on mass can come to it and really have that communion with the story and therefore by extension with the community. And I think something that's, that's something that's often missing with the disability community as a whole is really having these special events around it, you know, and really elevating it to this really like high and cherish level. And that's really more than anything, what I took away from, from last night and watching it and, and just, I thought I was really stunned by it. I really was.
[Deborah]: I mean, you know, I mentioned, just a little while back that I butt heads with Jenny. Sometimes I will tell her we need to lose two frames, two frames, it's nothing, but I say, I see it. We are two from Silva. We got to cut those two frames. It's like two frames. It's like, yes, two frames. And I think that's how you approach everything. And, and I, and again, there was, there's never any manipulation of like, well, you know, let's make this moment just a very matter of fact, you know, celebrate a beautiful of work. And I think that that is what really stuns people that are not involved with the disability community. It's how, like how normal all these interactions actually are. And one of the people working with me for the first time this year with actor Steve Way, he uses a breathing machine and he said, Oh, okay. So we're gonna cut the sound out from the breathing, breathing machine. And it's like, and I said, why he uses a breathing machine? You know, it's like, that's part of, you know, that's how he lives. There's nothing to cut. That's how it is. And because it makes you uncomfortable because you're projecting, that's your problem. That's not his problem. And it's not my problem. So, I think that is also what's so important about the Media Access Awards is the full inclusion of how people actually are in this world. And Steve is an amazing, talented guy for people that have not seen Rami. And I think Rami has audio description of the show. Because I think Hulu is one of the companies that have actually taking the great step forward to having audio described shows. It's a very funny show. It's a very funny show. And Rami does exactly what the media access awards does, which is normalized people's experiences. Like, you know, this is just the way it is no more, no less, nothing is just what it is and let's move on and live life, which is amazing and brutal for everyone on this planet.
[Doug]: I love Rami, I love that show, and certainly, you know, Steve is so great on that show and their relationship is amazing. And like you said, just by it being like two young guys, just trying to figure out all aspects of life. One happens to be Brown and the other happens to be disabled but they're just doing their thing. And I think that the focus being on them just being two guys like anyone else trying to figure out life really goes a long way in giving people a much more insider empathetic connection to communities that they might not normally have really empathized and stepped inside of before and people that they haven't necessarily stepped inside of before. And you have such, you get such great talent to be a part of the award show. Like we were talking about Nyle, DiMarco hosted it. You know, you had interludes with Jimmy Kimmel and Andy Samberg and Joshua Jackson introducing Lauren Ridloff and all these amazing people. Can you talk a little bit about from the producer brain side of this, you know, how you go about attaching the talent and that whole process?
[Deborah]: Well, Andy Sandberg, who you just mentioned, had given an interview to the New York times, I'm trying to think either, I think in September. And he said that one of the things that had helped him get through the pandemic was, you know, some incredible content that he was having the opportunity to watch. And one of them was Crip Camp and we were honoring Crip Camp. So it's like, you know, it's natural to get someone like him who talked about Crip camp on his own. We didn't have to introduce it to him. We didn't have to, he just saw that and thought this is a great documentary that talks about something that's really important. It was very genuine. So he's a nice guy, and he is, you know, someone that is in our popular culture, that is a perfect union, which is bring the mainstream to what we're doing, mix it all up and have a great result and sort of make it bigger. So that was, you know, Andy Sandberg and, Joshua Jackson had done children of the lesser God with Lauren Ridloff on Broadway and he actually learned sign language. And so it was natural for him. They have a beautiful relationship. And that was really the first big thing that Lauren did. So it made sense that Josh Shaw was the one introducing presenting the award to Lauren. So when we're thinking about, who's going to present an award, it's either someone who is part of the project or someone who is really meaningful to that person. We always also consult, with the recipient because we want them to feel good about who is presenting to them. I would never say, you know, you must receive your award from this person because, you know, if I want to make it special for someone to receive an award, it's got to come from someone who special to them. So it's like, it's a combination of all these factors. And then, you know, you tried to see if you know, someone who knows them directly, if not, you appeal to their, you know, their PR you explain what you're trying to do. And because I've been doing this for 11 years, I think that most PR companies now know about the media access awards, know what I do know that their talent always has a good time doing it, and they appreciate what I do. So it's not so hard anymore, but yeah, that's kind of the process we bring out, you know, those people that are meaningful to the recipient, meaningful to the show and making it happen.
[Doug]: You know, you were saying before that often the press doesn't respond solely to disability-related topics and that they respond to celebrity. It's nice when celebrity responds to the disability community like that anecdote you just talked about, Andy Samberg. And I know very fortunately highlighting the need for more inclusion in Hollywood has been a hot button issue over the last couple of years. Certainly, you know, even going back to Me Too, and the way that started to kind of unearth a lot of inequities in a lot of things that have gotten a lot more shine since then. And I think inclusion for the disability community is one that certainly gotten a lot more coverage. There's still this need, like you said, to have big name people get behind that. And it's nice to see, you know, in addition to Andy Samberg and that anecdote that you just mentioned I have seen more, you know, notable actors speaking out. I think I saw something not too long ago about Ed Norton and Mark Ruffalo really pressing the industry to cast more actors with disabilities. So it's really nice to see those kind of organically some of those alliances and endorsements happening from, you know, from people who get a lot of attention and get people's eyeballs on certain topics. So it's, it's so cool to hear when it's someone like that anecdote like Andy Samberg of just like him. And again, another example of the importance of media that includes stories about people with disabilities Crip Camp, which is an amazing documentary that's on Netflix, which was rightfully so honored last night, is something that very fortunately got a lot of buzz. I know it did really well on the festival circuit before it went to Netflix, none other than Obama and his production company was a part of part of making it happen. And that's the type of thing where that's a story that I think virtually no one knew about outside of like a very small group of people prior to that documentary. Now, so many people have seen that, and then you get someone like Andy Samberg, who's talking publicly about it and then gets connected to the media access awards as a result. And it all kind of snowballs. And I'm sure you've seen a lot of that snowball effect, you know, if you go back 10 years to now, but you know, you were also talking about how, fortunately, there's a lot more competition now in the media access awards. And because there's a lot more opportunity than there was 10 years ago where you were kind of like, you know, really searching for people to honor just because there was so little opportunity there. So now, you know, how the award show, the 2020 award show having happened last night with some amazing people like Lauren Ridloff and Ron Rami and, you know, Crip Camp getting all awarded. How do you now go about selecting winners and how has that process different from when you started 10 years ago?
[Deborah]: I mean, the one is just the. Oh, do we award Ryan O'Connell with special, or do we honor Rami? Or, I mean, now it's like some really great shows and, it's just exciting to, you know, sort of discuss why we should honor a show instead of another. So it's like, Oh, Ryan, it's a fantastic show. And he's such a great advocate for disabilities. And he's such a funny guy. I mean, Ryan, you just said, you just ask him a question and you just let him go. You sit back, have a drink. And he just keeps on going, and all amazing and funny and insightful and brilliant. But you know, his show on, you know, as a new showing plenty. Okay. So that's why we're not going to honor, you know, special, but it's exciting that we have these discussions of, you know, why we're going to honor a show, one actor or a producer instead of others. I mean, and we honored a way, which is also a Netflix series because there was such a, I mean first I think it's a great show, a great series and it's beautifully done. And the people involved are really amazing, but there is an organic way of involving people with disabilities. The first person we see who is disabled is a psychiatrist. And we see him in the series. I think first episode, we see him on a screen being the youth psychiatrist of one of the astronauts. And, you know, here he is talking to her being smart, intelligent, insightful. And I think in episode two, if you don't know the actor, you didn't know he wasn't in a wheelchair. And so episode two now, because he is in an office talking to someone, we get to see that he's actually in a wheelchair. And how amazing is that, that it was like a whole episode that, you didn't even know, you just came to know as the story moved on, because there was no need to make a point of that. There was no need to make a point that one of the other characters was a person with down syndrome, it's just, she's just there. She's part of the, you know, she's the daughter of a family friend of, you know, the main characters and, you know, it's just like, so all these characters with disabilities started to pop into the series as just people in the story line. There was no big thing about making a point of this person hasn't disability. And one of the main characters becomes disabled as the story moves on, but it's like, there's the shock of a change of life. And we have to recognize that there is a shock. You have lived your life one way. Now you're going to live your life in a different way. And once that transition period is sort of experience, then that becomes someone's life. And that became the life of this character and he moved on. So it was a really beautiful organic way to create a story and the run number of characters and actors with disabilities in the series. So we thought we should honor, the producers went out and really made a point of doing that. None of that was necessary for the story, but they just see the world as we do, which is inhabited by people of color, people with different sexual orientations and people with disabilities. And that was the world they created in the series that way. And we thought they should be honored for that.
[Doug]: You mentioned certainly sometimes in the storyline you need to talk about the disability, it's an important, like in the case of someone becoming disabled and adjusting to a different lifestyle, of course, it's a really important storyline to explore, but also the need for characters with disabilities, not the storyline, not being about their disability and how important that is. How far away do you feel like we are from that being more commonplace? Where do you see the future of storytelling in that sense?
[Deborah]: I think both stories are valid. We can't just have stories about people that become disabled, because that's not the full experience of disabilities. That's maybe one experience which should be explored, aimed storytelling, but no, the majority is just, and should be, these are our, you know, neighbors, our family members, our friends, our spouses, you know, and they happen to have a disability. My partner at the Media Access Awards became disabled in his fifties. And he went through a period of adaptation to his new life. But, you know, once that transition happens he was like, that's who he is now. There's never, you know, there's no, there's no accommodation in, in our relationship of like, he is disabled. It's just the way it is. You know, we work together, we yell at each other, we hang up on each other. We almost like married people, and that's really the most interesting, more interesting in terms of storytelling, which is bringing people in a normal interactions that have different experiences. And I mean, I remember years and years ago, my first real big understanding of the power of storytelling when I saw a movie called the Joy Luck Club. And it was about mothers being mothers, you know, and it was the first time that I actually saw my relationship with my mother through the mother's point of view. It was always like, I want, I am my rights, you know, sort of always my point of view. And this film allowed me to stop, like looking at my mother from my point of view, and actually look at me from her point of view. And I thought, Oh my God, I've been such a jerk. You know, so too, and this is what storytelling can do for us beyond entertain us is to allow us to see relationships from the other side. And when we do that, we start to understand human beings in a different way. And I think that that's, you know, what we should be doing with storytelling is bring all these different experiences, maybe, you know, of people, of color, of sexual, different sexual orientations of disabilities, and have these exchanges and, you know, create these stories where we get to experience. We get to think about what is it like for the other side? It's not just me, me, me media. And so that's the power of storytelling.
[Doug]: What kind of impact has the media access awards had since, since you started it up again? And how do you try to gauge that or understand that.
[Deborah]: We have had incredible impact because two things happen. One, that professional who is being celebrated for doing, and recognized and recognized for doing work that includes people with disabilities in a intelligent and complex fashion feels valued for the work they have done. Anybody feels validated. They want to do more, you know, it's just how we function. Oh, I got brownie points. I want more boundary points. And then their colleagues who turn around and say, Oh my God, I didn't think about that. That's incredible. I want to do, I want to do that too. So that's what we do. We sort of support the people that are already doing the work and letting them know. And as I say that, I'm thinking about Simon cow. Okay. So we awarded Simon cowl, the visionary award two years ago. And I am a fan of America's got talent and brought Ellen from that, Ellen Silva and I just started noticing how many people with disabilities actually went through the show and had a chance to win. And how many of them have actually won the show and have had their lives don't really change because of that show and how they're treated like anybody else. I mean, it, Simon has to say, you're crap. He will say, if he needs to say, you're great, he's going to say, and I really applaud that. So when we said to him, we'd like to honor you with the media access visionary award. He said, I didn't think people were noticing what I was doing. And that really is amazing because he knew what he was doing. He just didn't know. People had like really noticed what he was doing in terms of inclusion. And when he received his award, he said, this is the most significant award I have ever received in my life. And I think that right after he received his award, there was an America's got talent winners special. And that the were so many acts of people with disabilities. And I'd like to think that was also direct impact of like I got brownie points I want more brownie points and that's a really great thing and maybe I'm wrong, but I've also heard from showrunners and producers and directors who have said this show has changed my life. It has alerted me to people with disabilities, to the need to create storytelling that really reflects the largest minority in the country.
[Doug]: And the reality of the situation is as much as you can know, specifically how it's had certain impact, there's so much more impact. You'll just never know. But it's out there and is happening. I think that's one of the interesting things about, you know, now being in the like social impact entertainment space and learning about it, and there being a real focus on for a lot of people really gauging, gauging, and measuring that impact and getting analytics on it and what that's all, that's all well and good. I think that's great to have whatever analytics you can get. But the reality is when you're dealing with media, when you're dealing with the scope of media and how subtly, but significantly it can affect and change someone, there's no real way to gauge the kind of, it's funny, the real, the, the largest, the greatest impact that media has. There's no way to gauge. It's like, how do you gauge how much you moved someone's awareness or consciousness about something, or how you stirred someone really deep in their heart when they were watching something. And now, you know, maybe even it might be a year later, but they might encounter someone that they had no context of before and treat them differently as a result. How do you gauge that? Right. And there's really no way, although it is so great to hear those, those specific anecdotes and stories of how it has specifically created some sort of change. But I love that.
[Deborah]: David Hobberman, who is a huge producer, he said after the Media Access Awards he went to his casting directors and said from now on, I want to see people with disabilities, as well as any other type of person in my cast and calls it has to change and it's starting to change now. So I know that also is a direct result of the media access to boards is someone who was like, wow, this is really important. I never realized how important this is for people. And again, in general, people want to do the right thing. And when they realized the importance of representation and sort of get to think about things that they didn't have the opportunity to think about before, it's really, they will do the right thing. And, and the other thing about media is that content creators, usually we are working under so much stress and everything has to be done so fast that we have the tendency to just, you know, call Bob and Mary and whoever we worked with before, because it's the path of least resistance. So we have to say, okay, we need to change that. And it needs to actually start on the page. We need to start with the writer, writes something that be specific, if you have to about the creation, the psychiatry, the NASSA psychiatrist is an actor, is a character in a wheelchair just so that it will force the casting director will force the producer to actually go out and cast someone like that. And until we, you know, that becomes sort of second nature to the industry, we really need to make a point out of casting women cast, you know, in roles that usually women are not cast damn, you know, scientists, you know, presidents and, you know, you know, really make a conscientious effort in doing so people of color, people with their different sexual orientations, people with disabilities. And once that becomes just second nature to everyone, we don't need to do that anymore. It's just going to be it. But in this period, we really need to think about and make, you know, conscientious decision that we need to create content that reflects the world we live in.
[Doug]: Well, Debra, I couldn't think of a better way to wrap up today's episode than what you just said there. That was the perfect, that was the perfect button on our conversation.
[Deborah]: Oh yeah we rehearsed it.
[Doug]: For everyone, just to a T, just like we planned. But no seriously just want to thank you again for joining us today and for everything you're doing with the media access awards, I truly was like, again, in getting to know you over the last year and be familiar with the awards like I said to you, before we started today, I already had really high expectations and they were certainly even still superseded with what you were able to put on last night. Just on a closing note, if, if people missed last night, but want to check it out, can they, can they still do so,
[Deborah]: Yes, it's online right now. It's MediaAccessAwards2020.com. And again, the show is fully accessible and we love with people, check it out.
[Doug]: Debra, thank you again. And thank you to everyone who tuned in today. A last reminder, you can join us tonight at 4:00 PM Pacific time, 7:00 PM Eastern time for a live discussion and Q and a with a panel of artists who are deaf blind, including Robert from Feeling Through, Carol, who is a sculptor and Sally, who is an author. It's going to be a great time, go to youtube.com/feeling through to join us. And Debra, I hope you have a great Thanksgiving ahead, and I'm glad I caught you before the holidays. And again, right after an amazing award show.
[Deborah]: And I just want to say one of my most incredible experiences was the feeling through experience. So thank you.
[Doug]: Thank you, Deborah. I appreciate that. And all right, well, that wraps up today's episode. We'll see, I don't know if we're going to be on next week is there's some, there's this little holiday called Thanksgiving, so I'm not sure it's gonna happen next week, but if we will see you the week after, if we're not going next week. Thanks everyone. Thank you.