[Doug]: Welcome to episode 37 of Feeling Through Live. And today I'm joined by Marilee Talkington, who is an actor and advocate, and also the founder of Access Acting Academy, which we will be talking about in great detail. But before we do that, I'm going to start with an image description. I'll begin. You'll see on that screen our title for today is Episode 37 Academy for Blind and Low-Vision Actors. I'm in the bottom left corner with my name, Doug Roland and Feeling Through next to it. And I'm a white male in my mid thirties with my living room over my right shoulder and a picture over my left, a little Scruff on my face. There's an interpreter in the top right corner. Marilee is in the bottom right corner. And why don't you give an image description yourself?
[Marilee]: Sure. Hey everyone, I'm Marilee Talkington. If I had done this panel a week and a half ago, my image description would be different. I used to have very, very, very long red curly hair, but today I have very short, straight red hair. It's all gone. I cut it all off. I'm wearing red framed glasses. I have my little white AirPods in my ears. I think my shirt is maroon is kind of a muscle shirt and I have one of those zoom backgrounds behind me. That's like outer space. It's like, I don't know what it's like, it's it's like a light rim around the planet. So I'm sort of glowing and floating in space.
[Doug]: And I will say two things; One, your space-like background kind of matches the overall background of the screen, which is kind of like a bluish, like, like a little bit of a different tint of blue. And I was also wanting to save this for when we were alive, but I really like your haircut it's fantasy.
[Marilee]: Oh, thank you. I'm playing around with it. I'm finding that I've got like eight new looks, which is really, really exciting. I bought my first camera Palm aid.
[Doug]: There you go. See it's a whole new world for you here.
[Marilee]: Yeah, totally, and I should say, I'm also very fair skin and my age range for TV, because I'm not going to tell you my age is from 35 to 52. That's my age range for television right now. Thanks.
[Doug]: Fantastic. So, you know, there is a lot that I want to talk with you about today and what's, you know, actually I've been really, we've been long in this- this episode's been long in the works here. We've been, you know, we had an opportunity to meet each other via zoom about like mid last year. And I've been very excited to talk to you since then. You know, certainly want to talk a lot about access acting Academy. So I'd love if you could just for starters kind of just give just a very quick overview of what that is. And then I'd love to kind of talk about some other things that lead up to access Academy, but before, since it's just on the screen and underneath your name, I'd love, if you could just kind of like let people know what it is.
[Marilee]: Sure. Access to acting Academy is a first of its kind actor training program for blind and low vision actors. We, well, I'd been thinking about it for 20 years and basically started the building, the infrastructure of it, and 2019. And then at the beginning of 2020, we had our first five week full-time professional after training intensive in Los Angeles with 12 actors. And it was off the hook and it was all with master level teachers because that was extraordinarily important to me. It was all like MFA graduate level teachers that are teaching in MFA programs and drama schools. And it's still, it's, where I'm still going. Like that was budgeted. I had money for that, and now we moved virtual in the fall and what can get to that later, but now I'm trying to figure out what access acting Academy is going forward. But it's a really amazing place with Blind/Low-Vision actors in his face. And what I'll say about this too is that the whole pedagogy is based on the premise that every single person is inherently rich with creative potential, and you are not missing anything to become a potent creator, and we're not here to fix you either. We're here to actually invite you to realize your greatest self. So this isn't about fixing people. This is about trying to turn them into anybody else. This is about revealing the greatest part of who you are through acting.
[Doug]: Well. I love that. Thank you. That was a great introduction. And, you know, I think we actually initially met each other because of a kinship on, you know, obviously what we're doing and Feeling Through with Robert being the first deaf blind actor and the way that we want to provide more opportunities for people who are deaf blind to participate in acting and, and, and, you know, both sides of the camera and filming in the film and TV world. And obviously you're extremely passionate, not just as an actor yourself, but PR, but for providing more opportunities for other actors who are blind, low vision, or with other disabilities to get more work. And, you know, I think one of the things that really struck me and stood out to me when we talked, is your passion. It's something that just like kind of oozes out of every pore and is really, really infectious in a good way. I know that's had a negative connotation, so let me walk that back a little bit, but you know what I mean? But, but, you know, I think, you know, obviously, you know, I think on the one hand, from what I know from you as a long-time working actor yourself, you've obviously had, I'm sure plenty of experiences that have really fueled your desire to create access acting Academy, and that has really fueled your, your passion and the necessity that you find to create opportunities for actors with disabilities. Can you, can we kind of just walk back to like earlier on in your journey, you know, I'd love to kind of wherever you want to start with that, but I'm just kind of curious if there's any key moments that pop out for you or experiences that you've had that really, if you will, you could say were maybe the seeds that sprouted into access Academy.
[Marilee]: Yeah. You know, there's a few, I think the very first one, and this is one that I go back to a lot is when I went, it was my first cold read audition. And a cold read is when you show up to a theater or a studio or whatever, and they hand you, they're called the sides, but it's basically the dialogue, the script that you're a part of the script that you're going to read. And it was too small for me to read it's blurry, you know, and this was before anything was really digital. And so I had to go find a photocopying machine to see if I could enlarge it. And we were out in really way out, not the boondocks, but, but really separate where the studio was. I had to take three buses to get there, and it took me two hours to find a photocopy machine. And it was really, I found like a real estate agency that let me go in and enlarge the script. It was a mess. It was still really hard to read, but I was determined to do this. And two hours later, I show back up at the theater. It wasn't even theater as a studio. And I walk in and I've got this enlarge script and I'm still, I'm still needing to hold it close to my face. And I start reading, I start doing the audition and the director says to me, if you can't read the script, you don't belong on stage. And he excused me from the audition. So I didn't even get to audition. And it was that blatant. It was that clear. It was that blatant. And that was a really huge moment because then I ended up taking the three buses home and I'm a brand new actor. I don't have the vocabulary. I don't, I didn't have the vocabulary. I didn't have the language to stand up for myself in that moment. I didn't even understand really what this meant, but I remember going home and it being really painful. One and two, it was a moment where I had to ask myself, is he right? And the answer came back very loudly. No, he's not right, but I didn't know how I was going to change anything. Like if this is going to be the way it is. So that was a big moment. Now did I know I was going to start an acting school from there? No, but that was, that is a huge seed. Huge. And then when I actually got into school and the first movement class I ever took, or I ever signed up for, as soon as the teacher, I emailed the teacher and said, Hey, at that time, my, I identified as visually impaired. I don't use that word anymore. I use legally blind, but at that time I said, Hey, I'm visually impaired. I'm going to be taking your class. She emailed back. And she said, I can't teach you if you can't fully see me. And she unenrolled me from the class. I mean, this is, and this is after 1990. This is after the ADA came out. So, I mean, all these are kind of like little things inside of me now, what ended up happening, and I'll try to condense this a little bit, but I ended up realizing that I had to hide a little bit. And so I ended up really only speaking up when I absolutely had to, because I wanted to be in the class. So I fought to get into that class. And I got in. And of course, of course, like I actually ended up with the highest grade in the class because I'm good at what I do. Like I'm actually supposed to be an actor. Right. So, then I got into grad school and that's really, when I realized that something had to change, I got into grad school and I was studying acting. And, you know, when you're in class and I'm sure folks who, who are watching, listening, experiencing this can resonate with this stuff, deaf, blind folks, deaf those blind folks. Basically what they said is, you know, I say, Hey, I can't really see what you're doing. And they say, well, just to the best you can. And that's something I would hear over and over and over again, do the best you can, which meant we're not going to change what we're going to do. So you just take whatever you can and figure it out. And, and the other actors were basically getting the full experience of the education. And I was having to do all this adaptation in my head, and then faking it sometimes too, because they were using things like, don't talk to us about your vision. It's showing what was the language that they said? They said, Oh, yes. When you bring up your vision like that, it's like, you're all about self-pity. So they would associate me advocating for myself as me pitting myself, and yet, and so here's the irony of this is like I figured stuff out all on my own, like the scripts that I would get, they weren't accessible. I had to go home and type. I had a, I have a big CT, the big CCTV and I would put the script under there and I would type out, I would have to re-type in my entire script for everything. I still do that actually. So most actors would be doing their work and I'm there retyping everything. But all this to say is that I was working extraordinarily hard doing the work. I kind of shut my mouth because about my vision and what wasn't working, because it was just, it was just a constant battle. And at the end of the grad program, like who was awarded the big award at the end of the year for excellence in the craft me. Right. So it's like, it all, you know, it's what, what that is, is that I'm not saying, wow, great, Marilyn, you're amazing. It's more like there, these teachers and these programs and these conservatories, and these studios have such diluted ideas about who we are and what we're capable of. And they also have these diluted ideas that acting is only good when it's taught one way. There's, that's a bunch of BS. It's our job as teachers to figure out our way in to each student. So those were the big seeds of, in terms of the training, in terms of like, knowing that there needs to be something more accessible, something more that says, yes, we want you into our class. This assign this, this particular exercise is an accessible, let's figure it out on our feet. Let's do it. And that's what I'm doing at access acting Academy. And then of course the whole, like how many blind folks do you actually see on stage your TV? Barely any at all. I mean, you see sighted folks pretending to be blind, but that's, you know, that's, that's fake and that's just mimicry, but that teaches the conservatories and the studios and the universities that we're not actually worth teaching. And that there's no jobs for us. So this is, it's this really ugly cycle that's going on. And I feel like to get me to access act and Academy, I was like, I have to stop the cycle. I've got to stop the cycle somewhere. So we're at the beginning of it, but that's, those are kind of the juiciest little, I think, seats.
[Doug]: Well, thank you for sharing all that. And, you know, to comment on that cycle too, part of that cycle, as you were talking about too, is like how many people are there that were a similar position to you that were told you don't belong here and listened to that and gave up, and then you create this, this cycle too, because then you're, you're really, you're really creating a much more shallow pool of, of potential actors who are blindered disabled, if they're, cause not everyone is going to have that same fortitude that you had. I mean, there's obviously plenty of others that do as well, but there's plenty of people who probably for good reason, didn't feel like kind of putting up with that and just was like, screw this. It's not worth it. And then you create such a smaller pool of, and are missing out on some really potentially great performers in this case, who just ultimately were like, I just don't have the, the, the, the bandwidth or ability to deal with these obstacles right now. So I'm not going to pursue this. And you know, that's also, what's so amazing about the work that you're doing is like having this place where actors with disabilities can not only feel like they belong, but you work together to create a new methodology, right. That I'm sure as you're mentioning is I'm sure, ever evolving right now, but is something where it's really two levels deeper of like, not just like welcoming in, but really embracing and reorienting, how things have been traditionally done. What have you found so far? Cause you know, it's really interesting when we first connected, you were like, just like, you were like days away from launching this. And now as we're reconnecting, you've had a chance to really do a ton of the work. You know, what have you found from like when we first talked and you were just about to do this versus what you've discovered as you've been doing the work?
[Marilee]: Yeah. So when we talked, I was just about to launch the virtual studio. I had already done the live one in person and I learned a truck down there, but I will say that what happened with the virtual studio and what I learned is exactly what you're talking about. Beacause my mom's Blind and I grew up in the Blind community. And as soon as I started acting, I had, so like the very first television show I did, I had so many blind folks come up to me and say, I wanted to pursue acting, but told I was, you know, but was told I couldn't. And so they didn't pursue it. That's what I heard when I went virtual, honest, honest to God. I thought people would be swarming what happened? And I just have to hold my heart here because I got on so many Q and A's and support groups and panels.
And I was there convincing them that they had value and that they could come take an acting class. And the belief system that the world has basically been puncturing them with for so long became theirs. And so I was having discussion after discussion with people saying, yes, you can come, you actually have some artistry in you. And there's was like, well, how are we going to do it? I don't know how there's no career for me. There's no this. And I'm like, let's take a breath and let's, let's drill down to what, what are you actually believing about yourself that you've taken on? That's not actually your beliefs. So that was the first thing that happened. And that was a real shock because I was talking to so many people with that. And then we started having the virtual classes and the people that actually showed up, most of them had never taken an acting class in their entire life. So it wasn't just like after showing up, and this is the part that's so exciting to me, it was people that had never, it was like a dream and this was their first experience of acting. And that just feels so amazing. It feels so amazing to be able to offer that space. And also to know that the teachers that I'm teaching a master teacher, Jeff Crocket, our other master teacher, Sammy Grant, like they're the top caliber teachers. So they're not just showing up to a place of belonging they're showing up and getting great training. So I feel like, and in terms of like, you know, the actual classes, yes, I'm going to change the classes around come spring. I learned a lot about virtual teaching, you know, two week class versus four week classes, eight week class. But the thing that is so amazing too on zoom that I've learned that I learned in the room, but learned on zoom too, is that we're listening to each other.
So most of the folks didn't, none of the folks were Deaf. This particular group that I worked with, they were all blind, low vision for them to be in a group where most of the video was off and we were listening and they had always been told that they were missing something that was going on. So they didn't actually have the right things to perceive the action. And then all of a sudden they're listening to what's going on and they're going, they're actually their sophistication as audience members just skyrocketed. And that is thrilling to experience and be part of it's thrilling. Yeah I mean, I could just keep talking about it because it's such an exciting thing to be involved in.
[Doug]: It's really interesting to hear about, you know, new and different ways to teach an acting class that, you know, anyone who, you know, that people haven't necessarily thought about before. And I love how you're describing it as, you know, people have been so conditioned in this case, you know, blind and low vision actors specifically have been so conditioned to think they like can't do it the right way or are missing something. And to completely flip that on its head and find this new way and just this different rich, beautiful way to teach and learn and experience the world of acting really kind of just the, it takes my imagination to a bunch of new places that I haven't considered before. Another thing that really resonated about what you were just talking about it, some it's so similar to Robert Tarango, who's the Deaf-Blind actor and Feeling Through, you know, he's, he was in his fifties when we shot Feeling Through. And, you know, he had mentioned that I actually didn't learn this until well into the process of working with him, but, you know, he told me, you know, I think it was even after we shot the film that he meant. He finally mentioned me that he'd always wanted to be an actor. He just like, just as someone who was born Deaf and then later became Blind, he just didn't think there was any way that that could happen. Like in what, in every reference point that he had in the world, there was just no way that was going to happen. So he just did, it was like the type of thing that you dream about, you know, when you're like dozing off to sleep at night. And it's that kind of like, just like we're, you know, we were joking about being on Zuora on or whatever world we were talking about. Like this thing, that's kind of like, well, wouldn't that be great, but yeah, sure. And then all of a sudden he finds himself, you know, someone who's at the, at the center of a film that a lot tons of people have gotten to watch and, and love and praises work for. And now he is very motivated to continue being an, being an actor and pursue other opportunities and advocating for more people to consider hiring writing roles for actors who are Deaf-Blind. So it's just, it's, you know, it's, we create the world that we live in as much as we, if we don't think about it, we inherit, we inherit a world that is closed off to certain things that is not innately. So, but it's just something that if we don't really examine that, it's easy to kind of just continue with the status quo and go, Oh, no, you can't do that. When of course you very much can, and you're proving that on a regular basis,
[Marilee]: I'm interested in, I think this is really, I'm interested in what you're saying, because I'm also, there's like right. The roles for us and there's, we should be considered for any role out there considered. And then I think that the space that one of the spaces that we need to move into when you're clearly moving into this, or you are in, it is people are going to say, and they say this to me all the time is great. We want to hire this person for the bartender. How the hell do we work with them? Like, then there's all those questions. And I feel like that's what you're doing right now is you're developing the actual techniques and the pro protocol for lack of a better word, of how to actually work with deaf blind actors. Like for me, you asked me how to work with a blind low-vision actor. I'm like, here you go. Like, I've got it all worked out now. And now I just sort of hand it over and go, let's talk about it. You got that question. Great. I got an answer, but that wasn't available before. So I feel like that's also the place we want to head is like, consider us for everything, hire us, and then ask the question about how, or actually let me take that back. Maybe the house should be early on, but it shouldn't prevent us from being considered for anything. Does that make sense?
[Doug]: That makes complete sense. And, you know, I think there there's, th there's an evolution that I think has started and is happening and there's different steps along the way. Right. So when you, as you describe, so beautifully through your own experience, you kind of really spoken to the weight of so many years of not considering certain groups of people and not actually like not willing to change how things have been done to, to create an environment that that's accessible. And user-friendly for different groups of people. So like the first step it feels like, and I'm sure you, you get this a lot and you know, your work as an actor, as well as like, just starting to create an awareness that leads to a willingness for people who haven't previously considered these things to be like, Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. Tell me more. Right. So that's like a huge first step, right? Like just to have someone who is in any position of gatekeeper, quote-unquote, to be willing, to hear more. That's actually like in realistically not saying that that's the bar that we want, but realistically speaking for a lot of people out there, that's a big step that's I think happening more and more right now. And then from there, you know, people who are helping, if you will pioneer some of these things like you're doing with your, with access acting Academy, it's like a little bit of the weight is on the shoulders of people. Like, you'd go like, Hey, look, I've really figured this out. Let me walk you through it. Right. And then start to like really fine tune and expand the, the, the wisdoms that you're gaining in doing the work that you do. So that at some point it's more widely known. There's more people who are aware how to execute those things. And then it just becomes very much like, you know, a conversation that a QA I was doing with Marlee Matlin yesterday, she was talking about very, and her longtime producing partner, interpreter, Jack, Jason were both talking about how you've already got so many people on a film set per se. There's so much crew involved. So many different departments, like why isn't this just a department, a part of how a film set works in, in just speaking of film specifically, but obviously there's different meanings or why isn't this just at some point, like you got the grip team over here, right. And you got like, w you know, you got like the guy who like operating the truck over here and like, you've got like actors and you've got, you know, everything. Then you've got an interpreting team, or you've got whatever accessibility team or whatever the, you know, terminology will be once this kind of is more widely adopted just as it's part of a film set. Right. So it's, it's kind of like, I think where we're, where we're moving to. And I think, you know, the work that you're doing is really creating at the very least, you know, I, and this is what I really resonated with me about the work you're doing when we first connected Is you're creating Far less excuses for people who are in the position to hire actors to have, right. Well, it's like, well, we'd love to hire a blind or low vision actor, but we, you know what, there's just, there's not as many with the chops that we need to fill this role. And it's like, actually, you're wrong because there's now a whole crop of actors who are blind and low vision being trained by top notch teachers who are helping them find their voice and their, their creativity and their talent. So it's like, that's a big thing too, is sometimes you need a force the hand a little bit, you know, and kind of like already have an answer for some of the excuses that might come up. And it's something that, you know, we'd love to be able to do, you know, for the Deaf-Blind community of having doing so. And, you know, we've obviously talked maybe about working together on this at some point, but to also have there be less excuses right. About well there just, isn't the Deaf-Blind talent out there to be able to do this role or to be able to consider in these roles. And, and that's also, it's kind of like this multi-pronged thing. And, you know, that's why hopefully there's a lot more people that will not only be inspired to be actors from the work that you're doing, but also be inspired to take on leadership positions of helping further opportunities for other performers with disabilities. On that note, I'm going to take a quick pause for an interpreter switch. Great. So stand by on that. And we're all set continuing here. So yeah. You know, I mean, that's, that's why we can really, like, there's so many layers of importance to, to that work and Yeah And I'm sure, You know, it's something that you've probably already seen pay dividends.
[Marilee]: Yeah. Okay There was a lot you just said because all fat fantastic. But I actually took a note here, which was one of the things that I love, and I would love to be able to like, you know, CoLab with Marley and her people about an accessibility department as part of any film and TV set. I think that's the way to go, because I feel like what's happening is people are being hired as consultants, rather than let's just get an apartment, a department in there, because it makes me think too, that there's so many folks that don't disclose either. And if we normalize that there is an accessibility department and that that's just part of, that's just part of the game, that's just part of the business. Then I feel like more folks would probably feel more comfortable to actually disclose their disability, whatever they are, and be supported, be fully supported so they can do their best work that they can do on set or on stage. So I just love this idea of an accessibility department and not just a consultant. Yes. The other thing that kind of popped up is like, Hmm, I advocate a lot. And the people that I roll with advocate a lot, like so much so that it can be overwhelming and it can kind of take over your life. And in fact, the past two years have mostly been the advocating for the community. And there was some point, and I'm saying this for a reason, because I knew that as soon as I got any remote status at all, I'm not a celebrity, but as soon as I got any status at all, I was going to use it. I was going to use it to try to help the people coming from coming behind me. I was going to try to kick the doors open so more people could come behind me. And I did that for the past, probably two and a half years solid. And my artist is atrophying. And so she is really crying for attention. And I know this is a little bit of a pivot, but I want to bring this up too, because I often forget that my art is also my advocacy is that those of us with disabilities who are actually out there creating art are as impactful making change for disabled folks and for the industry as me going and creating a class, like because that's changing belief systems on a larger scale. And I'm part of the community that I'm serving. So I have to make space for me as an artist as well. So I know that's a little bit of a pivot, but I wanted to throw that in there because I know the that I roll with. I mean, it's so much advocacy and it's like, we're making steps, but there's so much more to do. It can be like any, I know for myself that I can often feel guilty if I'm not doing this a thousand percent of the time, and I'm not doing my art. Like if I do my art, it's like, no, no, no, you have to get back to advocacy. And I have to remember Marilyn, you have to keep cultivating yourself as an artist. That's who you are. And that's actually, what's going to serve not only you, but the larger community tangent anyway. So that's throwing that out there.
[Doug]: It's an amazing tangent, not tangent, totally related. And you know, that makes me, that brings me to, let's talk about the actor part of yourself, which is a huge part of yourself, you know, I know you have a long career in, on stage and in film and TV, you know, something that was certainly a, a notable notch on your belt of recent years as your role in the Apple TV series See, which is a show that's very fitting to this conversation. Can you talk a little bit about what that show's about and, and your participation in it? Cause I know it runs deeper than just being an actor that, that it led to other opportunities, I think with Apple and also from that. But can you tell, tell us a little bit about that show and your involvement in it?
[Marilee]: Yeah. See is a show that is a futuristic show, where the human race actually contracted a virus, a pandemic and went blind. So everybody in the show is blind. And because they all went blind, the human race in the show, I'm not saying I believe this, but the human race basically devolved. So, and there's all these clans that are roaming the United States. There's warriors, there's mystics. This is also like hundreds of years in the future to, and being part of that show is very complicated for me. It was the biggest acting opportunity I have had, and I got to work with some amazing artists. And I was on set with hundreds of people, mimicking blindness, because most of the actors on the set were cited. And most of the artists, all the artists were cited and that even talking about it hurts to talk about.
So it's very complicated because what I say, those people are bad. People know, are they misinformed? Yes. Are they living out the delusion that the ablest delusion that we're not worthy to play ourselves? Like I was one of, I had the largest recurring role for a Blind actor in the first season. And I don't know what's going to happen with the second season, but what ended up happening getting to your point about access acting Academy is that while I was acting there, I not just on opportunity, but, a deep need for someone to speak up. They had a consultant, but the consultant was super cool guy, but he doesn't have the 25 years of experience that I do. A so I took the opportunity to talk to the people in charge, even though I was nobody like, who the hell am I am working with Jason Mamoa for God's sakes, I'm working with alpha, whatever I'm working with, like international celebrities. And I'm like, Hi, we've got a problem over here. You know, like, but it just was one of those things where I basically said to myself, if I don't say anything, I have to leave, I can't stay here and not say anything. And what that led to was a lot of really amazing conversations. Illuminating conversations, hard conversations with the people involved and me saying, you need to cast more blind doctors, you need to cast more blind actors and them saying, where are they? And me saying, you're going to give me money and I'm going to do this program. And they're like, okay. And so that started basically the road of access act and Academy. And even though I had been thinking about it for 20 years, it was this thing with Apple who was in charge of the show was very eager actually, to do better, to do more. And their head of accessibility is she's fire she's really fired. And she was like, what do we need to do? What do we need to do to make this right? And so basically I pitched Apple and the heads of development of, or the heads of the Apple TV studio, and basically got this, the pilot program, lit, which was kind of, you know, it's the first it's the, what I've been told is this is the first of its kind that Apple's ever funded. Apple's never funded any sort of educational program like this before. So, kudos to Apple in a big way. And then I just cranked, I mean, cranked like full-time is not gonna even remotely explain how many hours I worked, you know, putting this together and preparing and doing it. And then also I was teaching it and I was teaching it and running it at the same time. And also basically being the only blind person that was on staff. So I was teaching the teachers and teaching the students, and it was quite something. And I think that at the end of it, because we had a performance at the very end, a private performance for about 90 people and, mostly industry, hire the mucky mucks in Hollywood Casting Directors, Writers, Show Runners, people from Apple. And this is where the power is. They thought I'm assuming that they thought that they were coming in to watch some blind actors act. And what they ended up coming in to see was an amazing night of performance that night at the, at the end of our five weeks, when all these inters free folks were in the audience and these actors who are blind and low vision were doing exceptional work, both acting and movement work. They, I think literally it's, short-circuited their brains. And it's the first time ever in my 25 years of theater ever that during the back, every single person stayed for an hour. And then after the talk back ended, they all came on stage and kept talking to people. And I feel like those are the moments that we need because people need to experience. We can talk to them all day long. We can tell them, you need to do this. And you did, you did this. And these are all the reasons why, but they need to exist to really experience what we're talking about. Like your film people are gonna see it here, experience it, and they're going to go, Oh my God, I didn't know. And so with Acess Acting you had, many people came, it was a smaller audience, but people were like, Oh, I didn't, I Oh, Oh. And this was only after five weeks of training. Oh, I just didn't know. So I feel like that's, that's kind of the longer story of the Apple, the Apple to access the C to Apple, to access act in Academy, but they really, you know, Apple's all about accessibility. So I'm hoping that we will be able to fund another intensive five week. Full-time intensive going forward, crossing fingers, people crossing, both my fingers.
[Doug]: You know, as you were talking, I couldn't help. But think about, the Marilee who was at the start of her acting career that had just faced that Director, Casting Director. I forgot which one you said that said, Oh, if you can't read the script, you don't belong here. And that pivotal moment where you're at home thinking really considering if you do, and, you know, giving her a, a huge, you know, a huge thank you to deciding that she did, because I think it was just to trace back to that moment, you know, as far as, you know, what it's led to, and the huge ripple effects of that over time are nothing short of incredible and massive, and really ended up impacting a lot of other people's lives in a really significant way. So just when you're telling that story of kind of where it's taken, you, you know, to these really important rooms in front of very influential people who make very influential decisions on how a lot of the, of what we see on, on TV and in films and how that really informs individuals and creates an understanding of the world around us, that it really does have a start to have a global impact in that way. When you think about how many people, you know, just Apple TV alone, how many people take in their shows, and you start to multiply that times, how many people are inspired to do things differently, or at least think about things differently moving forward. Can you tell us a little bit too about, I know you, you were honored with an award from the national Federation for the blind that also, I think has helped fuel the work you're doing now. Can you, can you talk a little bit about that?
[Marilee]: Yeah. And I'm going to back up just a little bit, Apple funded, Apple funded, the five-week program. And then I had no funding. And I had been doing so much volunteer work myself, but what happened in, I think it was March or April, the NFB national Federation of the blind. Sorry. No, no. It's like, I will say four and they're like, we're up, we're up? And I'm like, yeah. They're the world's largest blind organization for those that don't know. And they have an award called the Dr. Jacob allot in award, and he was the first blind physician who was a surgeon. And talk about breaking barriers, wholly talk about believing in yourself. And this was in the late 18 hundreds. So like he killed it. It's awarded to an individual and an organization that the NFP believes is basically breaking down negative belief systems about blind folks and pushing, pushing the right narrative forward for blind people and the world. And the other, the organization that got it is, Oh, I forgot the name of the actual university, but they're making astrophysics accessible, which is amazing. So they're like, they've got this big, they're working with like telescopes and the maps, and they're making maps of the stars, and...
[Doug]: That's how you made it to outer space today, actually, as part of that.
[Marilee]: And I was, I honestly, when they called me and said, we want to honor you as the individual for 2020, the Jacob and award, I it's still, it still chokes me up a bit because I think who the hell am I, you know, like there's people that are doing so much more, but, in my niche and the arts and acting, I'm, I am trailblazing in this area. So that part of that award was a cash element and it was an individual award. It didn't actually go to access after an Academy went to me, but when they told me how much the award was, which I didn't know until they actually, you know, the award ceremony and they told me it was $25,000, I just went, I, I was overwhelmed. I'd never like, that just seemed like I couldn't believe that I got that money.
[Marilee]: But I knew that when they, when that award, when I received that award, I was like, okay, it's time to go virtual. I've got some seed money here that I can put into creating the virtual Academy. Now 25 grand is not going to last. And that's, you know, I'm using it. And it's, and, and, and here's the thing about this that I, that needs to change is that I still haven't paid myself. I pay everybody else that's involved. But I'm saying this publicly right now is that's not sustainable for me not to pay myself. And because I'm a working person too, that needs to eat and survive, but right now at the moment, there's not a huge budget to do that. So that's actually how it happened. That's how the virtual Academy came about. So now I'm like, okay, where's the next round of funding going to come so that this can be a sustainable thing.
[Doug]: You know, you're, you're, you're obviously talking about some of what's very clearly needed moving forward. Are there other thoughts now that you've gotten to do both the in-person and the virtual classes, how you're envisioning, the next steps and kind of where you want to go with this weather anywhere from like short-term to long-term.
[Marilee]: Yeah. I mean, this is definitely something that's going to stay like, it's going to keep going. It's what I'd like to see is a studio program. I want to, I want to keep doing intensives because they are powerful major transformation can happen when you are in a room full time with folks it's, it's stunning. I've done it myself, you know, 20 years ago. And I know what that's like. So definitely those, if we can get the funding for it, in terms of the virtual, I want to keep going with the virtual Academy because I'm reaching people that are in some country town in Alabama that don't have any access to anything. And they're showing up to the, the movement class, like, or the voice class that is so exciting to reach a virtual acting classes through access acting Academy is, is like, it's huge now.
[Marilee]: So, so I definitely want to keep going with that. And, and in fact, I'm imagining right now, and I'm going to be having a visioning meeting with my co-collaborators very soon about how we can sustainably do this. Do we want to create like core classes, acting, voice, embodiment movement, and then have some musical theater and voiceover, is that what it's going to be? I don't think at this point, I'm going to turn it into an MFA program. I don't think that's what this is. But I definitely want to, I would love to get to a point where it's like a one or two year certificate program that actors could go through. And at the end of it really feel prepared to be out in the world to be out, you know, to feel that they have the skillset and the strategies and that they, they have a CRA they actually have a craft now, not just a desire and not just some talent, but they have craft and they know they know how to cultivate their own art. So I feel like that's the way I'm headed. At the same time I need my acting and my directing to go to. So, so I'm kind of playing this one out. You understand this?
[Doug]: Oh, absolutely. And I was just going to follow up with specifically through the act actor lens and or director lens. Like, are there, are there particular, you know, things on the horizon or things that like you're really interested in pursuing in that space or, or wanting specific opportunities in moving forward, anything that's like, kind of coming up for you on that side of the coin?
[Marilee]: Yeah. I mean, there's things that, there's nothing that's, you know, there's no bird in the hand right now, but there's things that I feel not only that I'm ready for, but that I just want, I want to be on a series, a really juicy raw series, as a series regular. And the reason I'm saying series regular is because one, I want to be able to carry that story arc. I want to be with the character for a long period of time. And I want the financial stability that series regulars that being a series regular offers, because I can get a guest star here and there once in a while, but that is not, it's still not financially. It doesn't offer me financial stability. So I, and there's so many actors I'm excited about doing, working with not doing, you know what I mean? But the other thing is, is that I've been working on a pilot and I'm really excited about continuing to craft this pilot and eventually getting that scene. I wrote for stage for quite a few years and writing for television has been writing a pilot has been really exciting and fun. And so I would love to be able to see that go whether or not I'm acting in it. I'm not sure, but, but the cast actually has blinded disabled folks all through it, but it's not about disability. It's actually about something completely different. It just so happens to have disabled folks in it. So those are the two big things, actually, I'm ready for my series and I'm ready to sell my series.
[Doug]: Hm that's great. Well, those are, those are definitely a really good goals to have for this, this upcoming year and, and beyond. Have you, have you found, I'm just wondering in your personal experience, like, you know, there's been a lot of talk, I think, you know, very recently I'd say even in the last like year or so with a little bit more attention given in Hollywood and kind of more mainstream outlets to actors with disabilities, or are creators with disabilities. Do you feel like in your personal experience, aside from the work that the advocacy work you're, you're personally doing, just to kind of what you gather being in the industry that does it feel like there is like, has been real discernible change? Does it feel like it's more just like conversation right now and we're silicone waiting for the change? Like, what's your like, finger to the pulse on that, knowing that it's something that's like at least coming up more in, in mainstream conversations.
[Marilee]: Yeah. I think, I think it's a little bit of everything. I think it's coming up more. It's not coming up in every room. There's definitely more opportunities now than there ever has been in my career. Meaning for other folks like I'm, for example, I had five different casting directors reach out to me a month ago in 10 days, looking for blind actors in 10 days, five different casting directors were like, do you have a blind kid age 12? Do you have a blind adult, a blind guy, age 60? Do you have this? Do you have that? And so I was actually referring the students, some of them getting their very first auditions, but anyway, yes, I think it's, it's starting to crackle, but it's, we're still at that beginning bumpy spot where people still aren't fully convinced. They're like, yeah, we should be talking about this. Let's let's look for this actor and this actor, and then half to 75% of the time they cast a non-disabled actor. And they said, well, we did our due diligence. So why think it's a little lumpy, but we're definitely moving forward. It's not skyrocketing, but we're definitely moving forward in conversations are happening. And I think it's because folks like anybody that has status, Lauren Ridloff. Oh, who's that just fine... Niley DeMarco. Oh, he's so beautiful. You know, anybody that has some sort of status and they use that status and platform to speak up, it helps everybody. So I think the more folks that actually are getting into those positions that are speaking about it, they're helping make big change. Allie stroker, Allie stroker, winning the Tony changed so many people's minds. We've seen a lot happen since she won the Tony. And in fact, when I actually went to pitch pitch my budget to the heads of Apple TV, they're like, can we just, can I just start? One of the guys was like, can I just start with saying, I just saw Allie stroker win the Tony. And I didn't know it was possible. And now I know it took her, it just took one moment and all of a sudden he's like, Oh, I okay. We're here to listen. Yeah, I don't know. What do you, well, I mean, you're like, how long have you been with Feeling through, and have you seen a shift in the time that you've been with the project?
[Doug]: It's a good question. You know, I started really actively started the journey and Feeling Through three years ago. And I'll be honest, like, a lot of the work that I though I've connected with a lot of amazing people through the work I've been, I think a little bit more insulated. So it's harder for me to have a finger to the pulse. Cause a lot of it's kind of happened within the Feeling Through like community and then connect just like connecting with different people out of it. So it's, it's harder. It's a little bit harder for me to gauge because of being in a little bit of a bubble, but I mean, I've just noted that like, you know, as we were talking about before we went live today, like we're Feeling Through some part of slam dance this year, we're really excited to be a part of slam dancing, you know, slam dance this year has just added a new category called unstoppable, which is for featuring films that are either have actors with disabilities or, or made by creators with disabilities. And they're really excited about it. You know, they've been in a lot of their public facing materials. They've really been leading with that and have been really earnestly working with everyone in that block to really try to make it the best it can be, and really learn a lot throughout the process. Feeling Through and Helen Keller services are working with them to provide accessibility for their panels. And they've been really receptive to trying to make the panels as accessible as possible. So those are my reference points, you know, as far as like seeing that, there's definitely, not just a change in certain spaces, but also like this enthusiasm that's starting to happen. And again, I think it's like choice, choice entities and individuals at this point. But, but, but like the enthusiasm I think is, is the cool thing to note, at least in a couple of the specific reference points that we've had with Feeling Through.
[Marilee]: You know, it makes me think. And I wonder what you think about this is that films can have huge impact. I just wonder, like, I don't know the answer to this film versus TV. What has more impact in terms of creating change? Because you have Crip Camp, the documentary Crip Camp, which was a sensation like complete sensation, you have a peanut butter Falcon, I could see his face, but I can't remember his name. You have that kid, who's this amazing actor who's down syndrome. All of a sudden people are like, Oh, you got your film. And I just, I'm curious about the impact of film versus TV. Like, because I feel like I definitely want to get into film too, like in a big way, but the people that are making films, some are crossing over to TV, but that seems to be a different, a slightly different crowd than those folks that are doing episodics on TV. What do you think?
[Doug]: Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I think so, but I think also just, you know, with the way that, the way in which we consume content has been changing content in a way that there's starting to be a little bit more fluidity, you know, I think even if you just think about there with streaming services, whereas formerly there were like certain lengths of whether they be films or TV episodes that kind of couldn't really fit into one slaughter in another. Now anything is fair game, like any length because we're, we, you know, we're not like scheduling blocks on TV. They're just these streaming episodes where you can click and watch anything. So I think there's a little bit maybe more fluidity between those worlds. But yeah, as far as influence, I mean, I think they can both have huge impact, you know, I mean, I think there there's certain things of ways in which a film gets out into the world that has a certain impact, but also being able to like live with a TV show right over the evolution of, you know, in a number of different episodes and potentially seasons is a whole nother thing. So yeah, I think they can both have just as big of an impact and in different ways, but, you know, I'd love as we kinda wrap up here for today and we, we have plenty more to talk about. So we'll have do this again at some point, but, two things I want to note one is I want to go to, Julie who wrote a comment. She said, I've been wanting to act since I was a teenager. I just don't know where to start. I try to act her class online, but there was no access for a deaf person like me. Do you have any thing that comes to your mind as far as like any, anything that you've come across that would be a good reference point or personally, maybe with how you're evolving access acting Academy?
[Marilee]: Yes. So I've got three things, one, there's Deaf West, and I believe that they actually offer acting classes, deaf West. I would look there first because they, if they're doing that already, there's no like they've figured out the learning curve too, is there is, I don't want to say it's less professional, but it's definitely for beginners, like to, to get a taste of acting. There's a program at Queens theater in New York called theater for all TFA theater for all at Queens theater. And once a year, they do like a two to three week offering of free classes to actors across disability and deafness, and they make stuff accessible. They're like, it's accessible for blind and it's accessible for Deaf. And it's kind of a, you know, a class here, a class there you'll get like a taste of stuff. My vision for access acting Academy is that we absolutely will be opening classes up to Deaf and hard of hearing folks.
[Marilee]: Absolutely. And this is something that I'm thinking about right now that I'm, that I'm imagining and that I'm visioning because I want an open to anybody that wants to come because I want to offer this amazing training to anyone that wants it. That's never had the opportunity, so we're not, I'm not there yet, but access acting Academy, if this is what I'll say, sign up for the email list, because guaranteed, you're going to hear something this year, guaranteed that there will be, especially now that zoom has closed captioning built in. I don't know if it's good or not, but I know that they've, they've just, they've just released that. So I am absolutely working towards this.
[Doug]: Julie says, thank you. And for anyone else who's interested in access Academy acting Academy. Can you tell them the best place to find out more information?
[Marilee]: Yup. www.actingaccess.com Perfect. Yes,
[Doug]: Marilee was so, I mean, the wait was worth it. It was so great to talk to you today. I'm sure we'll have plenty of other things to discuss In the near future, both offline and hopefully online again. And, yeah, just really just, you know, I such a huge fan of everything that you're doing and it certainly motivates me in the work that I'm doing. And I just, I really appreciate talking to you.
[Marilee]: I thank you so much, Doug. I love what you're doing and I'm so grateful that you asked me to be in this conversation. Thank you.
[Doug]: Well, thank you. And thank you to everyone who tuned in today. We will be back again next week. I think we might actually have to be at a slightly different time, but I will be posting about that ahead of time and, hope you have a wonderful weekend and see you next week.
[Marilee]: Thank you, interpreters. Thank you. Bye everyone. And we are off.