[Doug]: Hello, everyone. Welcome to episode 42 of Feeling Through Live. I am very excited to be joined by Marlee Matlin today who has recently become a collaborator and an integral part of the Feeling Through family. But, you know, Marlee, I realize, I feel like I've gotten to know you well in some respects over the last couple months. But there's a lot that, I still don't really know about you. That this is a perfect opportunity for me, personally, to also get to know you a little bit better. And I'm really excited to just have a conversation about a lot of different things today.
[Marlee]: And you know, what, my favorite color is?
[Doug]: Why don't we start with that? What is it?
[Marlee]: Because you asked me if you want to learn more about me. So I'm going to tell you; first thing up, purple is my favorite color. So there you go.
[Doug]: That's a great color.
[Marlee]: Now we'll get that out of the way. Now we can jump into the conversation.
[Doug]: I think purple, isn't purple, like associated with royalty. Isn't that like what they say?
[Marlee]: Well, I didn't know that, but, maybe so. Yeah. It's certainly, it's a warm feeling. It feels very. It represents unity to me. It represents. And it's also a little bit unisex. I mean, anyone, anyone can wear purple. It doesn't matter. It's, I just think it's a color that brings people together.
[Doug]: Well, there's so many things I want to talk to you about today. But, you know, from, for me personally. Where I'd like to start, because it's actually the first reference point for me in my life of knowing who Marlee Matlin was. I was an avid fan of Seinfeld growing up and I very distinctly remember the episode that you were on for a number of reasons. One, because it was great and Seinfeld was my favorite show. And two, because it's the first memory that I have of seeing a deaf actor on screen. And, you know, I guess the first question to that is, you know. I mean, what is, knowing that that was such a big, obviously you'd already won an Oscar at that point. But that was the biggest show on TV at the time. And I'm sure like me, there were a lot of other people seeing an actor who was deaf for the first time. What, was that experience like for you?
[Marlee]: Actually, the experience was awesome. When, I recall being told that there was an offer for me to make an appearance on Seinfeld and I was in New York and I don't know what I was doing there. It might've been filming something. And I was in a hotel room and I got a phone call from my agent who screamed and said, "you're going to be busy in the next two or three weeks. You're going to be doing Seinfeld." And I said, "Oh my god, Seinfeld. Okay." And my first thought was, how am I going to work with four or five cameras at once? I've never had that experience of doing a multicam show, a half hour sitcom. I mean, I'd been in movies, I'd been in one hour dramas. And I was a little bit concerned how it would work with the way they shoot the show. But then once I read the script, I realized, you know, it was perfect. It was perfect. The sense of humor from, from the writers, from myself, all fit together perfectly. And it was great working with the actors. I was so looking forward to them. They're so talented. Brilliantly, brilliantly funny. They made me feel so welcome on that set and the crew too. And I think I was working out. What was it? I was working at the gym and Larry David saw me at the gym on a treadmill. And that's how he thought of putting me on the show. And, so, listen, I still get texts. I still get tweets. I still get, you know. "Hey, I saw you're on Seinfeld tonight." Or, you know, "you're on a rerun." I mean, those reruns are nice. It was really a big honor to be part of Jerry's girls. You know, Jerry told me one time at an Oscar party, we were standing in line. It was like one of those after-parties. And he said, you know, Marlee. Our episode, the one with you in it, is one of my top favorites, my top 10 favorites. So that was really nice to hear that from Jerry Seinfeld.
[Doug]: And, you know, what's so interesting. I went back and rewatched it recently, cause I remember it very, very well. But also I wanted to look back at it through the eyes of someone who's been in a very different space over the last few years with Feeling Through. Understanding much more of the nuance of disability representation. Not just in opportunities for actors, but also in the ways the stories are crafted. Something that I found interesting about it and I'm curious your take on it. On the one hand, your deafness was like, a little bit, the butt of a joke. But on the other hand, they looked so ridiculous. That they were actually, at the end of the day, the other characters were much more the butt of the joke because of how ridiculous they were.
[Marlee]: Exactly. That's why that was the whole point of Seinfeld. That they, that, that little group of friends would make fun of people and it ended up making fun of themselves. It was perfect for me because there was nothing where I was pitied or nothing where I was, I mean, it was the other way around. And that was a nice change for everyone to see a deaf character portrayed like that. I had a scene where we're in the restaurant. Where they think, okay, oh oh. I can lip read for them. I could, you know. And they've got to figure out how to do this. Meanwhile, they're trying to cover up their mouths and their faces to make sure I wouldn't lip read what they're saying. And then I'd say, I'll do it. You know, it worked both ways. It worked both ways with the humor. And I think, I mean, listen. I use myself, I use my own deafness, my expertness in, in reading lips. And then you want me to make you look good at a party. And, you know, it was, it was this give and take. Kramer with his ridiculous, you know, explanation that he knows sign language. Making him, himself look like a fool, but I sort of go with the flow, you know, in a nice way. I think there needs to be more comedy like that.
[Doug]: And, you know, that's what I, what I loved so much about it is that even though it was from quite a while ago, it felt like, though that it really held up through modern eyes. That it was really nuanced in that way, because ultimately, you know, the people in that story that are somewhat objectifying, your unique skill are the ones who ultimately look foolish and silly. And I thought that was like a really, nuanced way of kind of subverting, you know, what you'd say maybe more, kind of a outdated storylines. And it really kind of held up for me in a lot of ways.
[Marlee]: It still makes sense. It's still fresh. It's still, it really still applies today. It's one of the very few shows that I'm very comfortable watching over and over again. It hasn't dated itself. I don't cringe. I don't regret ever having done the show. I wouldn't say, "Oh my gosh, man. That didn't age very well, that that's dated or why did we do it that way?" Listen over the years, we, of course, you know, whatever it is, what kind of work we do. We do go down different paths. But for some reason, this one has maintained a steady path. And it's, it's a show that the deaf community has never been embarrassed of it. I mean, it really, it's one of the first that really expresses a sense of humor when it comes to being deaf. It was written so well, it was written so well,
[Doug]: You just mentioned, you know. One, that the deaf community is never embarrassed by it. You know, I know that you're not only the first and only deaf Oscar winner. You're also the youngest in your category. And I can imagine from a very young age, because of your, because of the lack of representation of people like you in Hollywood, I imagine you had to really take on a role as an advocate, which you are now very well known as, but I'm wondering in those early days, how much did you embrace being an advocate versus it was something that was kind of just thrown on you.
[Marlee]: I really never did. I never did. To be honest, when I was thrust into the spotlight, into the Hollywood spotlight. You know, a year after I graduated high school, I was thrust into the spotlight just a year after I graduated from high school. And I remember thinking to myself, okay, fine. I'm doing what I love. I realized that my dream was coming true. I'm in a movie, I'm an actor in a movie. As I told Henry Winkler when I was 12, I want to be in Hollywood, just like him. And of course that's, what's happening right there. 19 years old. And then I became 20 during the shooting of the film. But I remember before Hollywood, I thought of myself as just a Chicago girl, and had never been exposed to the deaf community outside of Chicago. I'd never been exposed to deaf community politics. I didn't know about deaf actors. I only knew one. Linda Bove and Phyllis Frelich and Bernard Bragg. Maybe Ed Waterstreet, but I wasn't that. Maybe, Bernard Bragg was the one I actually met. And I didn't understand about the politics that were involved in the deaf community. I didn't understand ASL. I didn't understand all the different things about sign language. I, wasn't taught, about deaf education really. I mean, I didn't know about the politics about deaf culture and mainstreaming and being in classes with teachers who sign and, you know. There was much more to what I was exposed to. I was never taught that. Again. I was just a girl that just, you know, grew up in a community just like anybody else. Mainstream having different experiences, just like anybody else, but it wasn't until I did Children of a Lesser God. And in all honesty, because there was no social media at the time, I didn't hear about how, the deaf community felt about me doing a movie. I didn't know. And I had heard that they were looking for an actor to play my role of Sarah Norman. I think it must've been about three or four years, that I knew. Okay. And then when I surfaced like, "who the hell is this woman? And where did she come from?" Because there was an active group of deaf performers and artists who knew each other, who fully expected that they would be getting into the role. And I came in at the last hour, the last minute, and got the role. And they were like, "who is she to get this role?" And when the movie was done, I found myself having to grow up very fast. Everything happened so quickly. In fact, it all happened at once. So many things happen at once. And then I realized, "Oh, okay." Right after I made my appearance, the year after I won the Oscar. When I spoke the names of the nominees, is when I realized how much controversy I caused. Because they were angry with me that I spoke. That somehow I was passing along a message to parents of deaf children, that what I was doing on stage was the best and preferred mode to communicate speaking and not signing. And I was thrown for a loop. And it took, I mean, it's a long story and it was a long journey to get to the point where. It was tough. It was very tough, but I learned to accept it and I learned to deflect it. And I don't want to say that I was hurt. But yet I was, I was in many ways. Where it got to the point, you know it's funny that you brought this up. Because me being in charge of, you know, me being one to sort of express my opinions about deaf culture, making sure that deaf actors get jobs. Making sure that they're portrayed properly or whatever it is. I realized, wait a minute. No, no. I want to work in collaboration with other people in that community. But people say, I paved the way. Okay, fine. I paved the way, great. I started the ball rolling, but at the same time, I can't be, I can't do it alone. And I wish that one thing that might've happened, which was, I wish somebody would have come up to me right after I won the Oscar. Or maybe just before and just said, "Hey, we'll help you. We'll guide you, to understanding the world that's out there." Because again, I was so, so young and I had. I mean, I'm talking about someone deaf, being able to help guide me and realize, and I had to learn on my own. I think I just realized all of this about five years ago. And I said, you know what? I'm never going to apologize for what I did. If it was speaking at the Oscars, it was because I thought, well, it was right for me. I had to do a lot of growing up and yet at the end of the day, it's okay. That's why, when I see new faces, deaf actors, I always want to go up to them and say, "hi, is there anything you need? Is there anything you need to talk about let me know?" Because I wish someone had done that for me, but that never happened.
[Doug]: You were kind of just getting to this in your response. But you know, how much. When you take on a new project, how much awareness do you have about how the deaf community is going to respond to that role? How much do you think about that?
[Marlee]: It's a good question. I mean, number one. As an actor, deaf or not, you have to like the script. Okay. That's the first thing. Is the script, right for me? Is the script something that I can deliver? Is this script, does it have a role that I'm comfortable with? Is it something that I can play, type of character? I mean, those are all the aspects of any actor that goes through a script. That's what Henry Winkler, again, told me. You have to feel comfortable with the role. You have to feel it fits you. That's, that's the number one priority for me when I read a script. As any actor should, as any actor would deaf or not. So now with all of the conversations with, and the attention about; deafness, DeafBlind, disability, making noise, saying we're here. We need to work. We need to work. We need to do the work that's out there. All eyes are on us now as actors and as storytellers. Whether we're directors or writers. I'm fine with that. But we need to be able to do what we want to do at the end of the day, as long as we feel that the role is right. And that the role, obviously it has to be politically appropriate. We have to be sensitive to the community. But yeah, things have changed a great deal since when I first started and you're right, you're right. The role feels right. But at the end of the day, not everyone is going to be a hundred percent happy with the choices that you make. And I have to accept that. I'm not, I'm not one who looks at controversy. I don't look for controversy.
[Doug]: Is there a role in your career that stands out particularly as like a, just a favorite of yours? Whether it was just the experience of taking it on or kind of how other people responded to it?
[Marlee]: Well, Sarah Norman in Children of a Lesser God, will always stay with me. It was my first movie and I remember every single thing that I did to this day on the set, 35 years later. So many other shows that I've done or movies that I've done has sort of faded into my memories. I remember little highlights, but not the same way as I remember Children of a Lesser God. And when I watch the film, I remember exactly what I was doing while we shot that scene, during that day. What a huge, huge learning experience it was for me in my life. To the point where, I mean. It's just a one of a kind experience. Learning about what we're making, learning about what the crew does on the set, learning so much about the craft of acting. Working with other actors, working with the director. Craft service! You know. But other roles that I really loved, that I ended up doing, there are a few. Quantico was a lot of fun because I play, I played a law enforcement officer. I love playing on the L Word because it a whole different world for me. I love the challenge of that. And the West Wing I have to say was so much fun. It was a tough role, but it was a brilliant cast. And it was a lot of fun. And anyone who has the opportunity to work with Aaron Sorkin should be thankful as I was because, I love working. Even for David E. Kelly, on Picket Fences. There are so many shows and a lot of others that I wouldn't want to acknowledge at this point. But at the same time, Children of a Lesser God. To go back to your question, it's Children of a Lesser God.
[Doug]: And I'm wondering, are there certain roles that you have your eye on now that are roles that you haven't had an opportunity to play that you'd really like to, whether it's something really specific or just an archetype of a character.
[Marlee]: It has nothing to do with being deaf or not. Just the person, I would love to play a drug addict. And I've been in recovery myself for 34 years, and I know what it's like, and I know what kind of life the drug addict leads because I've experienced addiction. But I've never had an opportunity to play it. I think that would be interesting challenge. I think it's so, so you don't have to be deaf of hearing to be able to take on that role. You can just play the role.
[Doug]: Well, to pick up on that for a moment, there's been a lot of discussion, particularly over the last couple of years that I've noticed around, there being more characters with disabilities in stories and have them be played by actors with disabilities. But to your point, you know, where do you think we, do you think we're headed to a time in the not too distant future where there will be more characters, actors with disabilities playing characters that are not only not written as having a disability, but are maybe, types of characters that we wouldn't, that the general public wouldn't normally think of as being able to be played by a person with disabilities. Do you think that's something that's happening?
[Marlee]: Well, I mean, look at Peter Dinklage, what he's done in his roles. They don't talk about his stature. Nobody does. He just plays characters, that are, that make sense for him. And he's been very hot lately, you have to say. We need more Peter Dinklage's, we need more stories where people play a variety of roles. And that includes people who are deaf, just to enhance the story. A deaf character, somebody who happens to be deaf could enhance the character. It doesn't have to be about being the deafness. We need more of that instead of, I mean, I don't want to say we have to dwell on the disability or not, or the deafness. It's not germane to the role. I think it's about, I think more and more, I mean, people are still, I think, intimidated because, well, I mean, they see, you know, about box office ratings. Whatever IMDB number, they are. Are they number one on IMDB? And on the other hand. Oh, we're going to do this project out of love. We're going to do this project for the passion of the project. So those two things are always, you know, there's always a struggle between the two of them and disabled actors always have to face that reality. But they should, actors with disabilities should be able to do. I mean, we have to start somewhere. We have to start somewhere and people need to take risks and we need to see them being hired. We need more people like you, for example. Who are open-minded, who think outside the box. And basically operate without fear and instead operate with trust. That's why I say to my friends who are actors, when they say, how is it that you can get into the business? How do you get an agent? How do you get a job? And I say, "you know what? You have to hustle every day." You know, to get that. I mean, I'm fortunate. I have the Golden Globe and the Oscar behind me, but I still have to hustle. I have to go to my desk. I have to see what's going on. I look up, I find, I call, I research. I network. I write. And if you can't write like a writer, then find somebody who can write for you as a writer. Of course it's easier said than done, but you just have to get into it. Hollywood is a very funny business.
[Doug]: You can say that again. Speaking of that hustle though. You know, I think with whatever progress has happened from Children of a Lesser God to Coda, which, you know, again, to your point. Coda is hopefully a great sign for the future because not only did it sweep all the major awards at Sundance. It also broke records for an acquisition from Sundance and a $25 million acquisition from Apple. So hopefully that that is, you know, a sign of more to come of the marriage between, you know, more stories in that space and also the financial element. But knowing that, regardless of whatever progress there's been made, frankly speaking. A young actor like yourself is winning an Academy Award right out of the gate, was gonna invariably have more challenges than in a young actor who was not deaf given, you know, where things were when you won that and where we're still going. How much of you, looking back would hoped, would have wished for say a more traditional, an easier path versus the one that you were, your path or not. Like how much, how much would you have hoped for something different or.
[Marlee]: Well, look, I could say that I'm glad I got my Oscar early. That's all I can say. I'm glad I got my Oscar early because I have it. I got it. I was lucky, which, I mean, I guess it's pure luck. It's timing. I can tell you that I was very, very naive about the business? I, again, I didn't know what it all entailed, about publicity and what to wear and who you are going to go to the ceremony with. All of those little details that means so much to the Hollywood community. I walked in completely clueless, and I'm glad I did because the pressure would have been so much and I would have been so emotional and I would have probably over-thought it. And I would have driven myself crazy. So I'm glad that I, again. I was new. I was as green as could be. I got the Oscar. I said, thank you very much. Thank you for acknowledging my work. Most of you. And now 35 years later, having been in the business that time and having seen what I've seen in that time. The award buzz, the race, the people getting anxious, the PR, the stakes. Even last night I saw on CBS, a half hour, one half hour commercial from Amazon about two of their movies. And I'm thinking, all right, I'm so glad I wasn't part of that now, because I would have been obsessing. I don't think it's healthy, but what's important to me is the work, the people I work with. And hopefully back then I did my job and I continued to do my job and I continue to entertain people. And the fact that they acknowledged my work is really special. I mean, that's all I really wanted. So.
[Doug]: It's interesting to hear about, you know, your experience of your naivete entering the Oscars at such a young age, being a gift for you. Cause I actually, I went back and watched Children of a Lesser God very recently, and I feel like.
[Marlee]: It landed in your hands, no?
[Doug]: Yeah. And I feel like when I went back and watched Children of a Lesser God, very recently, when we actually first started talking. And something, that kind of reminds me of your character in that film, in the sense that you're razor sharp and really smart. But also there is a little bit of a kind of bubble from the rest of the world. You are kind of a little separated from the world around you and it's kind of your. There is like a, even though you're so smart, you're so smart in that role. And the character's written so intelligent. There is a kind of a naivete because of your distance from others. That kind of sounds a little bit similar to your, Oscar journey as well. Like when you were at the actual experience of being at the Oscars.
[Marlee]: That's an interesting perspective. You could say that. I mean, the real world versus the movie. But you know, art imitating life, life imitating art. Sarah, in Children of a Lesser God was isolated. She did only attend the school for the deaf. And then when she had no one else to go after graduation, she stayed at the school for the deaf and then suddenly a man comes into her life who opens her eyes and she grows up very quickly and he tries to make her do things she doesn't like to do. But at the same time, he's trying to help her grow up, into adulthood where she probably wouldn't have gotten that opportunity from her school principal or her mother, because everybody was struggling to communicate with her. But I think for me, Marlee, I did exactly what every other kid my age was doing. Whether I'm talking about five years old up to now, I saw things. I learned things. Just like any other kid would, but all within the bubble of Chicago. Before I knew it, then I was on my own and I never really planned to move out. I mean, I knew that I didn't want to stay at home, but when I got the movie, I said to myself, "okay, I guess this is it. I'm going to have to become an adult very fast. If I'm going to be leaving home." I. I mean, it was a crazy time. And yet I embraced whatever came my way. And whether it was something that I enjoy or didn't enjoy it, whether I had to work at it or whether it came to me easily. And whatever, I mean, I can tell you all the barriers that I faced, but then I broke it down. I broke them down. And while I was breaking them down, I would talk, I would make, I would talk to people about how to make things happen. So for example, I dedicated myself to my sobriety. I dedicate myself to close captioning. I dedicated myself to my career. And I think if it weren't for Children a Lesser God, I don't think I would've been able to do these things. And as I said before, Henry Winkler was one of the many people who helped me along the way. People who have been nothing but good friends and Henry in particular is somebody that I've known since I was 12 years old and he's still a mentor to me to this day. So it, again, I just went along for the ride after the movie and, you know, from the Golden Globe being a complete shocker to me. Really, I didn't expect to win anything only because I didn't know what it was about. I didn't, sitting at the front table. I wasn't even sitting at the front table at the Golden Globes! I was sitting at the one level up in the back. And I had Lee press on nails. And, I wore my glasses. I mean, I was just a regular Marlee. Oh, look, look at all the celebrities. Look at all the Glitterarty. And that's what kept me sane. No ego whatsoever.
[Doug]: Yeah. And I think if you want the longevity like you are having and are going to continue to have, I think that probably serves you pretty well.
[Marlee]: Probably so. I think I agree with you. And I think it was also married with that was playing a big role. Being grounded is to be sober at 21, which I did. I got sober at 21, the day after I won the Golden Globe and entered myself into rehab. Because I knew that the career path that I was embarking upon was a big deal. And I need to get myself clean. And I did it all by myself and no support, except for Jack and my family somewhat. But I can't blame them because, when you talk about a daughter, who wants to go sober. They didn't know any better. "What, what are you talking about?" I wouldn't blame them for not being there a hundred percent. My dad might've been, but then who gets nominated for an Oscar when you're in rehab? I! I got nominated for an Oscar in rehab. What a nice bit of trivia I can talk about.
[Doug]: It sounds like you really lived about three lives by the time you were 21 years old,
[Marlee]: Maybe four, right? Yeah.
[Doug]: You know, one thing that, you know, talking about family. One line that stood out to me when I watched Children of a Lesser God, is that your character, Sarah says something to the effect of, wanting deaf children. Before you started a family, was that something you personally thought about at all?
[Marlee]: In all honesty? I never even thought about starting a family before. I was a little too well. I mean, everyone can decide, but at the time I was so young, I was too selfish to, focus on myself. About exploring life out there. And then it was about getting sober, and listen, it didn't happen overnight. My sobriety, it took a while. So I was focused on myself for the longest time. I dated, I had a good time. That's what I was looking for. And so I didn't rush through life until I met the man of my life. And then of course I changed.
[Doug]: So I think, do you have four children? Is it?
[Marlee]: I have four children, 25, soon to be 21, 18 and 17.
[Doug]: And I'm wondering what, pandemic life has been like for you and your family. How many of your kids are at home with you during this last year?
[Marlee]: So she, the oldest one is living on her own. He is at, Marquette University. He is a senior in high school and she is a junior. So the two youngest ones are here at home. And I have to say that I'm lucky because they're old enough that they can take care of themselves. Regarding school and homework. So I don't have to, you know, have a blackboard and become the teacher at home, homeschool my kids. I tip my hat to all the parents who have had to juggle working at home and homeschooling at home. I mean, so that helps. That helps. I got lucky. But yeah, they miss their friends. And one of them refuses to see their friends in person. It's been a year, all they've done is virtual encounters. Maybe two or three, but they keep themselves within a bubble. But yeah, I think the pandemic has really, I don't think I've ever stayed home this long before in the entire year. I'm always on the road at least two or three times a month. And my dog and my cat are wondering, why are you still here?
[Doug]: As for someone like you, I imagine has been on the road often for your entire career. Has there been something nice about being able to stay put so much? Are you going a little stir crazy now?
[Marlee]: I've never talked to so many people in my life. People that I've known, but we really didn't have time to sit and chat. Zoom is now my middle name and I'm okay with it. A lot of people say that they're zoomed out and I understand the fatigue that comes with it, but I'm very visual. So zoom is perfect for me. This is what I like. I love to be able to see people instead of having to send emails or talk on the phone, which of course I can't do. So I'm not complaining about zoom at all. Thank goodness for that technology. I mean it's yeah. I mean, I cook a lot more. I have to say that I've been cooking a lot more.
[Doug]: I was going to say that Marlee "Zoom" Matlin doesn't really have that much of a ring to it.
[Marlee]: It's okay with me. It's all right. Marlee "Zoom Facetime" Matlin.
[Doug]: No, there is something interesting. You know, just to segue to Feeling Through for a moment. You know, so much of Feeling Through's life has happened virtually. And in certain ways it's allowed us to reach so many more people. You know, being present at every single film festival we're in, because they're all virtual and you can be at all of them. And, you know, connecting, doing conversations and conferences with people all around the world, has been something that's kind of been made possible being that everything's virtual and you kind of can be everywhere. So it has had its benefits.
[Marlee]: Who can complain about that? I mean, what better way to connect with people?
[Doug]: It has certainly had some benefits and you know. Firstly, as we transition to Feeling Through , I also want to say, and I'll say this many more times over, but it's been an absolute honor to have you and Jack on the team. You've been so amazing, such amazing collaborators, so invested and so generous with your time and your energy and your resources. So I'm still kind of on cloud nine about it, even though it's been quite a while. So first thank you for that.
[Marlee]: No listen, look. I believe in this project. Simple as that. I believe in Feeling Through, I believe in you, I believe in the actors, I believe in everyone who's associated with this film, whether it was in the making or after whatever it was behind the scenes. I can't be any more happy about the authenticity that is represented in this film. I mean, yes, we cast it that way now, which is beautiful. And I tip my hat to you for doing that. But at the same time, the whole thing, just screams authenticity. The words you've written, the stories you've told. Whatever it is that you've expressed throughout the whole Feeling Through journey that I had an opportunity to see. I mean, I never have taken my eyes off of this journey. And I know that when I look at a project, I look at what my gut says, what I feel. And I say, if it's good or not, and this is good, and this is good. And this is what I want to share with the world because you really, truly, richly deserve everything and all the accolades that come with this film. And so thank you for listening to yourself because what happened in that one moment that inspired you to do Feeling Through. What were you doing the hour earlier before that moment that you met the young man that inspired this movie? What were you doing? 15 minutes before you did this? What was, three minutes before you did this? When suddenly you met this guy that changed your life forever and you changed as a result, other lives forever. So thank you for being brave. Thank you for trusting yourself. Thank you for making this happen because it just needs to happen.
[Doug]: Well, thank you, Marlee. I appreciate that. And you know, as we're talking about producing, you know, I'm hoping, can you talk a little bit more about your producing ventures and you know, what you're focused on and also what you hope to continue doing in the future from a producing standpoint?
[Marlee]: Well, you know, in the past, I would say about, I think I've done four or five years after I won the Oscar. I was at a point where I thought, you know what, I need to set up a production company with Jack here. And Jack runs this production company called Solo One Productions. And our goal was to find projects, rather than wait for projects, to create our own. I thought, why wait? Jack, write something, find something. So actually after doing some research, Jack, did our first film that we produced today, produced together, called Eddie's Million Dollar Cook-Off for Disney, and they bought it. And then the next thing, you know, we went onto the next project. We shot that in New Zealand and I wasn't in it, but I couldn't go because my mum was having a quadruple bypass at the time, but that was great. And that was our first, our first producing effort. And we did a movie for Lifetime that we shot in Oregon, called Where the Truth Lies with Regina King, look where she is these days. I mean, Regina King and I got to work together at a movie I produced and now she's so hot. So that was another effort on our part to produce. Sometimes you go through dry spells, you know, and it's when I'm working for example, on a TV series consistently, then I find that the producing efforts, we don't focus on them so much. So I have to learn how to balance that. You know, you're trying to juggle all of these different balls in the air, but right now I am like a, you know, I'm done with waiting. I'm ready to roll up my sleeves and I said to Jack we need to hustle a hundred times more and whatever it is that comes our way, I look at it. I'm looking for projects today, where, as I said again, we represent them authentically the stories authentically that they're good stories. Depending on, it doesn't matter what the character is all about. It's not about being deaf. I just look to also collaborate with other people. I think collaboration is extremely important, especially like we are doing the Feeling Through. I mean, you did a brilliant move by collaborating with Helen Keller center because they're an authentic organization where you can get everything A to Z when it comes to aspects of the DeafBlind community. And I have right now on my slate, several projects that I'm excited about that I'm producing. Some that I'm not in, some that I am in. So, maybe perhaps we can work together again.
[Doug]: I hope so.
[Marlee]: If you'll have me.
[Doug]: If you'll have me, I guess it's mutual then. You know, one thing that came up when we first connected about Feeling Through. We also, had, we were also on the same page about how it could be used beyond entertainment. The ways in which we could use it, educationally, community building. And one thing that came up was we talked about how, you had mentioned that it could be something that could be a really good tool, or vessel to help build stronger bridges between the Deaf and DeafBlind communities. Communities that at least in my experience over the last few years are, you know, quite separate for obvious reasons. They're completely in many ways, completely distinctively different cultures and communities, but there is also an obvious overlap too. That doesn't always necessarily seem to be there as far as, cultural connections between the communities. I'm wondering what your thoughts are about that. And you know, about those communities and how maybe Feeling Through could potentially play a role in building a bridge.
[Marlee]: I think you're right. And I think I appreciate that you brought that up because they are two different worlds. The one thing that just really binds them together is that they can't hear. Deaf people are very dependent on their eyes and extremely so. Whereas maybe if an individual was deaf or they had a progressive vision loss, or maybe they were born being deaf and blind, their way of communicating with the world, their tools are different than the Deaf community. They have interpreters just like we do, but in a different form. Yet at the same time, we understand what it's like to be deaf. I don't understand what it's like to be blind. I don't understand what it would be like to have Usher Syndrome. I have a lot of friends with Usher syndrome. I've had friends who at once were sighted and now they're completely without sight. Some high school friends of mine, I've watched this happen to them. And I would hope that Feeling Through, as you said, would bridge these two communities together, where we would get to the point that we could work together. That we could educate the outside world, that we're not that different. And yet we are unique communities that want to work together. Once you examine how we go through life, I think it will help everyone else. At first, I have to say when I, you know, I met Robert and watched him and I have to admit; how is he communicating his interpreters? And I thought that, "Oh, it's funny." It's just another facet. I mean, you know, instead of one interpreter, he has two interpreters. Instead of, you know, they're closer to his field of vision. I'm still learning about people as a result of having this experience of being associated with Feeling Through every day. And yeah.
[Doug]: Yeah, you were kind of just getting to this, but you know, you'd made some reference points of people that you knew that maybe who were deaf, who had lost their eyesight, and obviously getting to know Robert. But I'm wondering, beyond those reference points, how much did you know about the DeafBlind community prior to coming on board with Feeling Through like, what, how much was it?
[Marlee]: Nothing. Almost nothing.
[Doug]: Yeah. I mean, that was me too.
[Marlee]: Almost nothing, no. I had taken a memorial service for Bernard Bragg and there were a lot, it was a lot of work. Where we had to coordinate interpreters and we had to plan. And it was, it took a lot, I mean, picture about three months. And at one point, someone at the very last minute said, so Marlee, because I got four interpreters for the event. With microphones and no way to choose who would be other voices and almost the very last late hours of the morning, "What about the DeafBlind community?" And I said, "Oh, what, oh, right." And I'm so happy that they let me know. To be honest. It wasn't my area of expertise and I don't want to sound selfish, but I just honestly did not know. So I thought, where can we find people? How can we get interpreters? And so I knew someone who was an expert in this arena, and I said, can you be in charge of this aspect of the memorial service? And she took eight interpreters who were DeafBlind interpreters. And at the end of the day, it worked out beautifully. So that was a big relief to me. So yeah, it's.
[Doug]: It's definitely been, you know, as you well know at this point, certainly a learning experience for me, every step of the way. And something.
[Marlee]: Oh yea, absolutely!
[Doug]: And something that I realized too, is that, you know. As someone who had no, didn't know anyone who was DeafBlind in my immediate world, I'd also never seen the representation either. So I realized that like, you know, part of the reason I had no knowledge.
[Marlee]: It's been enough. There's not been enough at all.
[Doug]: I couldn't think of a single reference point. Other than when I remembered learning about Helen Keller as a very young kid. And I realized I had no visual reference. I had no, like, I'd never seen a movie or a TV show, or even really a news story that I can ever think of that featured the community.
[Marlee]: Well, I mean, I think Richard. I mean, we've seen blind people on screens. But again, these were all people putting on costumes of disability or being blind that they weren't authentic.
[Doug]: And, you know, that's something that I've had heard spoken about in other ways, but I've recently really taken on how you talk about disability is not a costume that you put on. I love that way of phrasing it. I'm wondering if, you know, I think there's reference points a lot of times that you wouldn't have. Like, it would be so obvious to someone now that you wouldn't have a white person play, a person of color. Like I think people would immediately would have to be explained why that is problematic. And certainly there's historical things that make it a little bit different in certain ways than what you're talking about. But do you liken it to something like that? Do you think there's, or do you think there's some point in the future where maybe it's a utopia that we won't get to, but there's so many opportunities for everyone?
[Marlee]: I think we're talking about race and issues of race are so much more deeply problematic than issues having to do with ableism. You can't. I mean, race is just something you just can't absolutely do. When you're talking about disability, you're talking about some sort of physical aspect of the person, but race is so it just a completely different, completely different.
[Doug]: So to that point of being completely different, I'm wondering, do you think there's ever a case, even if it's sometime down the line in a different world where it would be okay for a non-disabled actor to play a character with disabilities, do you think that is something that's ever okay?
[Marlee]: I think we've seen enough of that. I've seen, we've seen enough of it. We've seen enough of it because now we are aware of the fact that there are so many actors with disabilities. There are so many actors who are deaf out there who could play the role, expertly. Who again, would be playing it authentically. Because if you look at the two, you compare the two there's nobody that can play the same way as a person who's disabled, or. I mean, look at the movie Music. SIA's movie. Fine actor, in general, playing the role or for that movie, for that person. I watched it for the first two minutes. I could not stomach watching this person go through what it was like to play a non-verbal person who was autistic because the lead actor was shown what it's like to play a non-verbal character, the way that they communicate just bothered me because there are wonderful people out there who could have played this role who are on the spectrum. Not in the same level, but could not, completely as the same level as this character, but who, I don't know. It's just. I believe fully. I know there are people out there to play the roles. If you just look, but to have this cast the way it was, uh. I mean, you know, maybe in the past we would have been more comfortable with it. You know, fine. Okay, it's a character you can play. But I think since what's been going on, I think since what we know. Since all the noise that we've made, to have this still happen in 2021, I can't do it. Listen, I love Kate Hudson. I think she's a great actress. I love her mother too, Goldie Hawn. But I just wasn't comfortable watching this movie with her in it. I wish the actress who played the character with autism played it better. I'm not one to criticizing an actor's work, but I know what's real. And it was hard for me to watch this actress play opposite Kate. As much as I have respect for the actress in this film. SIA, I respect her music. I know that her intentions probably were good, that she really loved to develop and shoot this film. And I feel bad that she had to lash out the way she did with those who questioned her choices. I feel bad for everyone concerned. It's just not appropriate these days, because these days, you can't do this any longer. Cause you just can't. It's a tough situation. I would not criticize or say anything bad about any actor's work, period though. Really.
[Doug]: Well. That's such an interesting example you brought up because I'm pretty familiar with it. I have not seen the film, but I did read a good amount about it. And I did read about the progression of SIA's response initially pushing back a lot, and then ultimately acknowledging that she's learned a lot in this process. And I think that's such a microcosmic example of the fact that, these things have not yet been talked about and thought about enough because SIA, if SIA had thought about it before she wouldn't have done that.
[Marlee]: Maybe, and that is, she did say she spoke to a variety of organizations having to do with autism, which I believe, of course she probably did. I mean, anyone should, who was doing their homework and had a passion for the project. But yet, and she chose this actress because they were good friends, which is fine. And she believed this actress could do a good job. But the reality was that autism is not something. I mean, it should have been played with somebody who was on the spectrum. That's all I can say, it was simple as that. And I know people think, well, that's what acting is all about. If you can't act that way, what does it all about? And you know, we're at that crossroads where we have to answer that question. It's a long conversation. It's a long conversation we have to educate. We have to listen. We are entitled to shoot and develop and produce television and films, whatever we want to, and play it. That's, that's the fact, but there is a line that we should not cross that you'll find yourself being taken down hard for not portraying them authentically. There is such a fine line about how do you deal with both sides of the argument? It's very political or, you know, somebody it's almost akin to what the Republicans and the Democrats and the Independents are going through. I mean, I wouldn't try to touch any of this with the ten foot pole, you know, myself, no.
[Doug]: You know. There's this story that comes to mind for me, that's very different from what we're talking about, but I think you could use it as an analogy. One of the first films that I ever made, I studied abroad in Prague in the Czech Republic. And I was making a film with a friend of mine there. And we made this film that all the actors were Czech. It was Czech language. We were working with an all Czech crew and we ended up telling this story of this young man who's enlisted into the military. But he actually, he doesn't believe in the war. So he's actually trying to get out of town with his girlfriend so he can evade the war. And, you know, we thought it was like an anti-war message. And then we played it. We didn't know a lot about Czech culture at the time we played it to a Czech audience and people hated it. They were so angry. They were, we had a Q & A afterwards. They were furious with us. And we had, no, we had, I mean, we didn't think it was the best movie ever, but we didn't think it was that bad. We didn't understand. And then afterward the Czech, our like Czech dorm mother with the program we're on. She told us, yeah, the reason people really upset is because, you know, Czech Republic had been under foreign occupation for hundreds of years through several different empires. And that's kind of, you inadvertently perpetuated a stereotype that, you know, Czech people, just avoid war. That they just get rolled over and that they don't want to participate. And the reason that story came to mind is because if you start telling stories about cultures that you don't know about, even if you have the best intentions, you're going to walk into a trap. So really, that to me, that's authenticity.
[Marlee]: You're going to get taken down, you're going to get destroyed.
[Doug]: To me, that's like an analogy about authenticity. Well, you don't always have to work solely in stories that are directly your experience. But if you're going to tell stories that deal with other people's experiences, keyword that you mentioned before. Collaboration is necessary because that's how you nail it on the head.
[Marlee]: It's your ass on a rack.
[Doug]: Exactly, exactly.
[Marlee]: I had an interesting perspective from, something or someone that I knew, fairly well. Who saw Coda and this person had one comment. That he wasn't crazy, he loved the movie. He loved the movie, but the comment that they made was that the portrayal wasn't, or the family, the Rossi family in the film wasn't, sophisticated. That they were from a working class neighborhood. And the person was afraid that people in general, who had never met or seen deaf people or deaf characters or sign language would think that's what all deaf people are like. And I said, but that's not the case. It's just one aspect of a community who happens to live the way that they live, who work hard. Who may not be sophisticated when it comes to salary or social status, but they love each other. They care for each other. And it's much more than just that surface aspect. I mean, yes, we all know there are deaf lawyers. There are deaf doctors, there are rich deaf people. There are poor deaf people. There are homeless deaf people. There are regular deaf people. So, I mean, I think we can tell stories, regardless of what people think, or especially characters who just happened to be deaf and whoever they are, written, however they're written, whatever they do, however they're portrayed. So I mean, you know, a movie is not the entire world of the deaf community. So, you know, you're right. One has to do the homework, but at the same time, you can still, you know, if you can pick one story, if you could make one story, tell that one person's perspective. That's okay. That's what we'll be making is about. But it's not, nobody has ever said that a film represents the entire world.
[Doug]: That's well said. I'm certainly we fielded that with Feeling Through as well. So I can totally understand that, but you know, Marlee. We're out of time for today. I want to thank you so much. You'll have to come back another time. We'll do it again. But thank you. Thank you so much, Jack, as well. And just again, I just want to end by saying, I'm so excited for the journey ahead with both of you and can't wait for everything we're going to experience. So thank you so much.
[Marlee]: I couldn't be more happy. I can't wait for people to see the film more and more people to have more discussions about it. People, the friends, the family, their kids. You know, somebody at CBS. I don't know. I don't care. I want everybody to see this movie.
[Doug]: Well, thank you so much.
[Marlee]: Nice Doug, Thank you.
[Doug]: And thank you everyone for watching today and we'll see you next week. Bye.