[Doug]: Welcome to episode 13 of Feeling Through Live. We're joined today by Walei Sabry, who is joining us from the New York. He's works for the New York city Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities, and he'll fill you in on everything that he does. But first off, before we start with anything, Walei, with your great, suggestion here, I'd love to start off with a description. Can you, can you describe yourselves for those watching?
[Walei]: Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Doug, and I'm happy to be here. Um, and an image description is just something that we do, uh, we're doing more of in the disability community. And I encourage folks to do that, whether it's on social media or if you're in a conference meeting or virtual meeting, or if you're on video. So, uh, I am a middle Eastern man in my mid thirties. I'm actually about to turn 35 next week. I have, uh, olive skin, uh, brown eyes, and I'm currently rocking a, um, pandemic hair. Uh, I haven't had a haircut in a while. I have long dark curly hair, which I've sort of, uh, flattened by wearing a hat. Uh, so I got a little bit of hat hair today, uh, and I'm wearing a buttoned down long sleeve shirt that is, um, uh, light blue, gray, and white, uh, checkers. And behind me, you could see my, uh, TV, uh, unit with like my smart TV. And I'm not sure if you could see, but I have also all these very cool, uh, sculptures, uh, and, uh, that I had like a venom from Marvel and Goliath from gargoyles.
[Doug]: That is, that was an amazing description. And I think you also are about to start a new trend, which is called a pandemic hair. So when we see that in the next GQ of like the new hot thing, we were going to know who to credit it to. So make sure all of those watching me curious, you know, who, who deserves the credit on that one. And, uh, Doug here, Doug speaking, I am a white male in my mid thirties. I'm 36. Uh, so close to Walei and, um, I am wearing a light blue checked, button up shirt and, uh, got, got short hair. Um, not as, not as a pandemic chia as Walei, um, and a little, but a little bit of like pandemic Scruff on my face. So that's kind of where I, where I show my pandemic-ness. Great. Well, you know, to start, you know, I, we have a lot to talk about today. Certainly want to talk about your personal journey, which is really interesting. I want to talk about ADA 30 and everything accessibility, but I'd love to start off, you know, I, haven't actually asked this question in a while, but I want to know, um, how are you, how have you been feeling through these last few months in this distinctly different time?
[Walei]: Um, you know, I have a lot of the same problems that everyone else has obviously. Uh, there's the added barriers, barriers of accessibility. Um, I, um, thankfully I'm working, uh, so I'm able to maintain my life here in New York city. I live in a story of Queens and, you know, been trying to practice social distancing as much as possible. Um, and you know, I, I go out to get groceries whenever needed and, you know, that has been empowering, but also a little bit difficult because, you know, um, obviously I, uh, why should I didn't say it? I identify as a blind person. Uh, I use a mobility cane and, uh, I've been known to use all sorts of colors of canes, my favorite being, uh, electric blue, but I've also known to rock black and green. So when I go out, um, unfortunately when people see a blind person, they just forget about social distancing measures and it's happened to me, uh, quite a few times where just a random stranger will just go ahead and grab me without even asking or prompting me or asking for consent or anything like that. So that's some of the barriers, but, uh, you know, otherwise I have been able to stay safe, stay healthy, um, go out and get the supplies that I need. I know other people in the blind community have not felt as safe and have relied on, uh, others. Uh, and I, you know, I also do have some friends here in the community that have helped me and, uh, you know, gotten me either supplies or groceries or, you know, have, um, went out with me for walks and parks and things like that.
[Doug]: I'd love just to go back to the topic of, you know, people, some other people, you know, kind of forgetting about social distancing and just like grabbing her arm without consent and things like that, you know, certainly throughout, throughout the process of The Feeling Through Experience and taking this around, um, you know, much of which has been connecting the deafblind community and other related communities with, you know, other communities that maybe are coming to the deafblind community or blind community for the first time. And something that, a question that I definitely get asked often from people who are kind of new to this space is how to help. And, like the whole question, like again, quotation marks of help, right? Cause there's sometimes this assumption that it's needed when it's not. So, you know, what would you, speaking to someone who's watching who maybe is new to all these topics, and has this question of like, quote unquote, how do I help, right. What would you say to that person? Like, who's curious of, maybe it's like, I don't know if I should interject or not, or I, you know, who's just completely new to it and doesn't really know how to navigate that situation. What would you say?
[Walei]: That's a good question and you happen to talk to somebody who conducts disability awareness trainings all the time. Uh, and that's definitely one of the topics that we handle. Um, you know, the, the two main rules are, you know, um, uh, or a few rules, right? We respect people's personal space first. Uh, if you think you want to help, or if you think someone needs help ask, um, and, uh, if they do say that they want be your help, don't assume that, you know, what they need, um, ask them how they can best help you. And, uh, you know, this happens to me all the time where, you know, I for, and I'll talk to my experience as a blind person. Um, you know, folks will walk up to me all the time and, you know, sometimes I just, I know what I'm doing, but, you know, because I'm a blind person and I'm doing it in a way that is visually, it looks different, uh, from what other people are used to, they think I'm struggling or they think I need help just because I'm holding a cane.
[Walei]: Right. Um, and folks will approach me and say, you know, excuse me, do you need help? Um, and a lot of the times I'll say no, because I know what I'm doing. And, uh, unfortunately, um, folks have trouble believing that. And usually the next question after that is, are you sure? Um, and, you know, uh, so definitely don't do that. And, uh, also definitely don't, um, don't follow the person and then yell things at them as they're, you know, trying to traverse and navigate the environment. I've had folks yell at me, things like those are stairs as I'm halfway already up the stairs, or that's a garbage bin after I've already dropped some garbage into it. And, you know, those are funny stories, but sometimes, uh, you know, it's taken me a good amount of concentration to get to where I'm going or do what I'm doing. Um, and so having somebody like be a backseat driver can be distracting and, you know, it does happen sometimes where it'll distract me enough, where I will walk into something and then they go see, you do need my help. You know, not even, not even realizing that it's really them that have, you know, created the situation. It becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy. Um, but you know, if somebody does need your help and they let you know that, um, you're, you should also just be respectful to ask for consent before touching them or any of their belongings, as well as, you know, ask them how you can best help let them be the leader in that conversation. So they can hold to their autonomy and independence as much as they could with folks who are blind. You know, they might ask you for a verbal directions where, you know, you only use your words and, um, then there's the practice of human guide where they can hold onto your elbow, uh, to, uh, physically, you know, navigate.
[Doug]: Yeah, that was, that was an amazing answer. And, you know, reminds me of a couple of things. Uh, you know, one is, and I've shared this story maybe once before for those who have tuned in, in the past. But, um, everything Feeling Through is inspired by an encounter I had with, um, the first man who was deafblind that I'd ever met about nine years ago in New York City. And in reconnecting with him and talking with him, one of the things that he shared with me, um, a year or two ago was that, um, he's very adventurous. He loves to just explore and be out in the world all the time. Um, and he says that at least once a week, when he's out in the world, he'll just be all, you know, exploring, doing whatever errands he has to do, whatever it is. And someone else will see him assume that there's something wrong and actually go and get a police officer. And you'll have to like talk down a police officer on a weekly basis just because someone else without checking in with him in any way, assumed not only that he needed help, but that he was in some sort of distress that needed the intervention of a police officer. And it's just such an amazing, like extreme example of like what you were just talking about. And I think there's this thing, you know, certainly something that I've learned in a much more nuanced way, but I think something that anyone can really quickly, um, start to understand is like, and this goes for anyone who's, anyone is having a distinctly different experience in life than yourself. So to carry your own perceptions and place them onto that other person, rather than really trying to connect with and understand where that person's coming from in their own words can be a really, uh, tricky and bad situation and not a great way to operate. So, you know, so well exemplified.
[Walei]: If I can add to that, you know, I think one more rule is don't blow the situation out of proportion just to demonstrate what you just said. You know, you know, don't also, don't single out a disabled person in public. A lot of people will do that, uh, and just call attention to them, to everyone around. And, uh, that's not, you know, being singled out in public is just being in public as a disabled person can be difficult enough because I, you know, I might not be able to see, but I could feel people staring at me a lot of time. Um, but in terms of blowing this situation out of proportion, um, I also, you know, I've experienced things such as, you know, I was once looking for the Outback Steakhouse in 23rd street and, uh, I stopped two strangers, I was almost there, right. It's just like a couple of doors down. And I asked them, you know, I was trying to ask them, you know, where, you know, how far down is it? And before I could even, you know, get an answer from these people, I hear somebody like running towards us from behind. And this lady just yells like, wait, wait, I'm a nurse, you know? And I'm like, oh, there must be an emergency. So I step aside and guess what it turns out, I'm the emergency. And she's like, here's my arm. And, and so, you know, it's just the, it could be a, yeah, it could be definitely off-putting and, and, um, having to sort of talk people down all the time. So, absolutely. Yeah.
[Doug]: Well, you know, I'd love to, I'd love to just, before we move forward, I'd love to go back, let's go back, let's go back to your childhood. And I know, you were born in Egypt. Can you kind of tell us a little bit about growing up there and when you came to the United States?
[Walei]: Absolutely. So, um, I was born in Egypt and when I was about nine years old, um, my family moved here to New York, New York City in the United States. Um, and, uh, you know, that was my first transition in life. I was, um, you know, Egyptian and I had, um, I was, and I know how to speak English, but, you know, I, it didn't take me very long to sort of pick up the American accent, uh, cause I was young here and definitely went through, um, the transition of assimilating the culture and learning how to act, uh, socially and communicate the way that people do here, which was different from us that, you know, I also, you know, I didn't, I didn't necessarily grow up, grow up with the same education that folks here did or the same freedoms and rights such as freedom of speech or freedom of choice and things like that. So even as an adult today, you know, I have trouble speaking up for myself because, you know, at an early age out, I wasn't really, you know, encouraged to have that freedom of speech or whatever. Um, and, uh, that was sort of my first transition. And, um, I was diagnosed, uh, with retinitis pigmentosa, at age four and that's a progressive eye condition. So I grew up with relatively, you know, usable sight. Uh, I had tunnel vision, which, uh, was able to, you know, read and see faces and colors and things like that. And at the age of 19 is sort of when my site crossed over from, you know, being able to see and have low vision to blind. Um, and, I had to sort of relearn how to do everything. You know, I wasn't necessarily prepared because my parents were immigrants and they didn't know about early intervention services or anything like that.
[Walei]: Um, so I didn't really get any sort of rehabilitation or mobility training or anything like that until I was like 15 or 16. Um, and so as an adult, I had to sort of relearn how to be a person from scratch, you know, how to do everything as a blind person. Um, and, uh, so, you know, I've, I've sort of did that transition from being relatively sighted and, and building a whole life around being sighted, to becoming a blind person and, you know, building a whole life around being a blind person and, and a former sighted person, I suppose. Um, so yeah,
[Doug]: I love this, you know, you, you obviously so much of your, your childhood and adolescence is this transition. Like you're talking about transitioning from one country to another, and the culture shift there, transitioning from someone who is sighted to someone who is blind. Can you, can you talk a little bit more about that transition from when you started to like, personally identify as blind and kind of how, what that transition was like as a, as a young man from having kind of identified in one way up until that point. And now what that process of like is like a moving into identifying in another fashion.
[Walei]: Sure, yeah, I mean, there's definitely, um, a lot of things to go through and experience and, uh, it's not like a, you know, I had some trainings and then I became blind and I was like, okay, I know what to do now. You know, uh, there's definitely a psychological toll that it takes and, um, learning how to get around and, and how to read, how to get dressed, how to, you know, make food and, um, how to solve all these little problems that, you know, make up the day. Right. Um, and, um, to be honest, I wasn't exposed to a lot of blind folks, uh, when I was younger. And when I was, you know, I had this sort of internalized ableism. So, you know, people who had less sight than me, I sort of viewed myself as better than them. Um, and sort of thought to myself and never really said out loud, but like sort of thankful that I wasn't as blind as those people.
[Walei]: And I remember helping, you know, I was in blind camp and helping other people who are blind because I had more vision at the time and be feeling good about myself and being like, I'm glad I'm not that person. Um, and, um, you know, it wasn't really, until I started meeting other blind people and other disabled as well, who are comfortable in their own skin who were proud to be disabled, um, that I started to shift from that mentality. Um, you know, as well as, you know, I had a lot of internalized ableism about myself and what I could do and, you know, up until the age of 23, I was relying on people to just help me out with even the simplest things like going to a doctor's appointment that was only two or three blocks away. Um, and, you know, relying on people to just take, take me out and give me social experiences, because I wasn't confident in my own travel skills and travel training. And so, uh, when I was 23, I started, you know, I just made a constant conscious, conscious effort for meeting other blind folks that were independent, that I could do it too. And I started kinda teaching myself how to, um, you know, based on the skills that I had learned from previous orientation and mobility classes that, um, you know, to take little trips that I started taking the bus, maybe one or two stops away and, uh, you know, eventually longer and then started taking the train a few stops and back and, you know, short little trips and, uh, you know, whether it was just to go downtown to buy, you know, a watch or something like that, it was like a sort of rewarding experience in itself to just do something by yourself, after such a long period of, um, being conditioned, you know, by everyone around me, by society, by media, that you should wait for others to help you.
[Walei]: Um, and you know, not to put anyone down as well, you know, there's very levels of independence and I support everyone, you know, who, wherever where they're at. So, and I'm not saying that if somebody needs help, that that's a bad thing, but for me, it was an empowering to be able to, they go out and do things by myself and on my own. And I used to, um, got my, yeah, I started getting my degree in disability studies in 2010. Um, and that really changed my world view. I got to meet so many people with disabilities, whether they had cerebral palsy or spinal cord injuries, people who are deaf people on the autism spectrum, um, and just started to get, um, exposed to all these folks that I had never met before. And all these communities that were not I'm ashamed of who they were and were much more comfortable in their bodies and, you know, were loud and proud about their identities. Uh, and yeah, I started to sort of shift from somebody who, you know, had these ablest tendencies and, you know, to someone who is now proud to be disabled and proud to say the word blind, you know, and I'm happy to meet other blind folks, whether, you know, they have the same skills and independence as me or not. Uh, and sometimes I've been able to help folks that were not as far along in the journey as I am by teaching them from my experience and, uh, telling them my stories and encourage them, encouraging them to be more independent. Um, and, uh, so, you know, now I'm at a place where I work in city government and I actually get to advocate for our community within that government and, and, you know, make sure that as much as I can, right. Um, that I am representing the needs of the community and, you know, nudging folks, um, who need to be nudged, but also educating folks who are otherwise not exposed to our community and the disability rights movement and, and all of that.
[Walei]: Um, so it, and we've had, you know, the disability pride parade for the last five years and I've attended all, all of them. Um, and it's, you know, it's usually my favorite day of the year because, you know, we get a large number of people with disabilities and allies and, you know, march throughout the streets and, uh, just make our presence, you know, known and felt and heard. Um, and you know, this year we're, we're doing a disability unite festival that will be virtual and it'll also be accessible. So that's a little bit about me.
[Doug]: I love that, how you kind of just walked through, um, you know, this transition from identifying as sighted to moving into and the different stages of starting to identify as blind. Um, and this idea of, or this, you know, this concept of internalized ableism, um, you know, I guess first off, could you, for people watching, who might not know this term, can you, can you just define what ableism is? And then in conjunction with that, you know, you had mentioned that even as you were starting to identify, like, identify as blind, there was still this kind of hierarchical element early on for you of feeling like, well, I do have some vision and this person doesn't so like, phew, like, thankfully I have the vision I have, and I wouldn't want to be this person. Is that something that you think like, you know, is fairly pervasive, in, in various disability communities? Or is that something that is, is a pretty relatable experience for a lot of people? So again, the first part of that is if you could define ableism first for those who might be coming to the term for the first time.
[Walei]: Absolutely. Um, yeah, ableism is sort of a term akin to racism, but it comes, you know, when it comes to disability. Um, and, uh, you know, so it's having prejudice against people with disabilities. Uh, the only, I think big difference, I think enables them is it could be very subtle. Um, you know, people aren't outwardly hateful towards people with disabilities, generally speaking. Um, but it, it, it, it presents itself in the forms of micro aggressions, you know, in that people, uh, will sort of assume a role of authority and I'll meet a lot of able-bodied folks or sighted folks, um, who will tell me what to do and insist that, you know, it's just on things like helping me write or insist on, like, in this situation where I'm walking by myself and somebody grabs me, I'll say, no, thank you, please. Uh, I don't need your help. And they think that they're doing me a favor. And so they're like, they insist on it. Like I'm trying to be courteous to them and trying to be polite at my own expense, but really, I just want to be left alone and I want to be respected. Right. But they don't realize that, um, they think that they're just helping, um, it could also come from a place of just low expectations, you know, where I go somewhere and, um, you know, trying to get services and they ask me, so where's your helper, you know, because they don't think that I can get there on my own. Right. Where's your caretaker, um, or, or even like, you know, when I tell folks I take the subway and they just react in this way, like shocked way, like you take the subway really all by yourself?
[Walei]: You know, or, you know, so it's, it's a sort of, there's so many varying degrees of ableism, uh, even, you know, when we, um, put people with disabilities on a pedestal for doing ordinary things, you know, you'll see a, an article about, let's say, um, the boy with autism who went to prom, uh, that's apparently news, you know, um, and you wouldn't read necessarily write a story about, you know, a boy or a girl, or, you know, a person, uh, who is not disabled going to prom because it's a regular experience. But for some reason, if it's a person with a disability, then it becomes this sort of inspirational sensationalized, you know, um, uh, news story, uh, which really, you know, shows like our lowest expectations of the, of the disability community to speak to your other question about hierarchy. I do definitely think that it still exists. Um, but I wouldn't say it's like, you know, something that all people with disabilities experience, depending on how connected you are with the community and how deep your understanding of disability rights is, and, um, how much you're exposed to folks. Um, the hierarchy starts to sort of collapse. Um, but there's definitely a lot of folks, you know, who are not necessarily there, they're on the outskirts of the community, right. They might miss maybe in the example of myself, right. Have low vision, but not, you know, be somewhat exposed to people with disabilities every once in a while or other blind people let's say, or people who have less efficient than them, uh, but not be exposed enough to kind of have that, um, respect or empathy and, and sort of inwardly, you know, judge or inwardly kind of think to themselves, like, like I said before, like, I'm glad I'm not that person.
[Walei]: Right. Um, so that, you know, that hierarchy does exist and it, it is a form of internalized ableism. Um, and you know, I think even outside the community, I think I do meet a lot of folks who are thankful that they're not disabled and they make me, they make it known when they meet me. Right. Um, you know, they'll sort of use meet myself as a, um, as a way of sort of, you know, subtly being like, um, you know, meeting you like makes me so thankful that, you know, I'm healthy and able body and I don't have to deal with all this crap. Right. Um, maybe after like five minutes of interacting with me, uh, and they think that they might be saying something nice, but they're not, they're saying like, thank God. I'm not you. And they're like, they're not even necessarily keeping it to themselves. They're actually just saying it to my face. Um, so yeah, there's definitely a hierarchy that exists, but like I said, it really depends on how deep your connection is to the disability community and how many people you're actually exposed to. Um, and that, you know, one more sort of example is I will meet a lot of folks who are very interested in what kind of treatments I've had or, or if I've heard of the bionic eye or Lee, um, have I tried laser surgery or what about STEM cells? You know, and so I'll meet folks in there. This is their very sort of first opening questions. Um, and they, you know, once again, they think that they mean, well, um, uh, but you know, when, when the first question I get from folks is often, have you tried fixing yourself? You know, it doesn't necessarily make me feel great, or it's not really a great starting point for us, um, as, as a conversation, because now I sort of feel like you don't necessarily respect me as a person, right. And, and you have this, um, this desire to know normalize me. Uh, and that's, uh, unfortunately, you know, another form of ableism is trying to make people with disabilities, look as normal as possible, and like asking folks who are blind, like to put away their canes so that they are not, you know, very visibly disabled or, um, you know, and things like that. So it was a, it was a lot, I think,
[Doug]: No, that's amazing. And there's so much to, so much to go into there. I just want to take a quick moment to do an interpreter, switch Hold for that for just a moment. Alright. We're all set. Good to go. Great. All right. So continuing here. Yes. You know, Walei, so many, so much great stuff in there. And I think just to touch on a couple things real quick, I loved, I loved one of the kind of key distinctions that you mentioned in ableism is that very often there's a real subtlety to it. Um, that it's not this overt, like someone yelling at someone like you're less than me because you're disabled, like, or, you know, someone like really outwardly exhibiting it often, it's this really unconscious bias for someone who doesn't even have any conception that they're even being able to list or doing something that's offensive. In fact, there's this real irony kind of to this, what you were describing around the trope of the disabled person here to inspire everyone, that being their function, this real irony of oftentimes people, when they're exhibiting like very clear ableism, think they're doing the very opposite and think they're doing this great thing where they're like doing this great thing by putting someone who's disabled on a pedestal, when in fact, in effect that person is really just highlighting that person for their disability and not seeing them as a, as a person. Um, so there's like both the subtlety that you were describing and also the irony of someone being able to just, and very, to they're very opposite of that, thinking that they're actually doing something really great and helpful, um, and you know, so much more in there that was really well put. Um, I'd certainly love, you know, with the time we have left to move a little bit more into what you do want a daily basis, how it relates to ADA 30, just right before we move into that reminder to all of you watching right now, if you haven't already sign up for our free live stream of The Feeling Through Experience on July 16th, that will be in honor of the 30th anniversary of the ADA, Americans with Disabilities Act. A very important piece of legislation, which we're about to discuss. Um, you can do so at feelingthrough.com/register.
[Doug]: And if you have already signed up, please share that information with anyone and everyone. We want to make it as big of a celebration as possible. And during these times where we're so separate, there's something really, really cool, like our last live stream of bringing so many thousands of people together in one virtual viewing, experiencing having that chat box light up with people from all over the country and all over the world, you know, sharing their thoughts and connecting. So please do share that. And again, for the second half, and for the rest of this conversation, if you're watching on Facebook and you haven't already please hit that share button, share it with other people so they can tune in for the second half of this, we're going to be talking about some really important stuff around accessibility. If you're on YouTube, feel free to share that link with other people as we continue the discussion. So, let's talk about ADA 30, can you explain what that is to people who aren't familiar?
[Walei]: Absolutely. Um, so the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed in 1990. Um, and so it's been around for 30 years. There's actually signed on July 26 of 1990 by, uh, George H. Bush Bush. Um, and, uh, it was instrumental in, in many different ways. First it gave a lit legal definition of what a disability is. Um, and so now we had actually a way to distinguish and, uh, be able to claim a disability, and distinguish ourselves from folks who might be quote, faking disabilities, I suppose. Um, and so removed a lot of that ambiguity. It also protected people with disabilities from discrimination, uh, whether it's in employment or in private businesses, right. And getting services. Um, that was a thing where, you know, if you were disabled, you could show up somewhere and they could say, well, we don't really serve your kind, um, and to tell you to go away.
[Walei]: Um, and, it also, you know, has different titles, title two and title three are the ones I'm going to highlight, but title two pertains to state and local government. So, um, governments need to make their services, um, and communications accessible to people with disabilities and title three, uh, is the same thing, but it's places of public accommodations, you know, meaning businesses, uh, you know, and, any place that provides services for folks. Uh, and these are important, because they, you know, they give people with disabilities, sort of the right to, um, you know, demand, accessible services. Um, and, they also have, you know, the concepts of reasonable accommodation and undue hardships. And so it gives us a way to measure whether the modifications for accessibility are feasible or not. Right. So you are asking a big corporation or a big department store, like, like, um, I don't know, like, let's say to add elevators, in their department stores, that's considered a reasonable accommodation. Um, on the, the other hand, if it's a small sort of mom and pops, um, and, I'm asking them to get an elevator, could be a financial burden that would put them out of business that could be considered right. And undue hardship. So it's important to kind of be aware of those, um, and know about them because, you know, they can help you in your advocacy and help you understand why some places are accessible and why some places aren't. Um, the other thing about the ADA and, um, you know, that could be a suppose better is that is, it is a complaint based law. So there's no deadlines for anyone to make their businesses or services accessible. Mmm Mmm. Instead it is a complaint based law. So folks, you know, have to submit their complaints with the Department of Justice or their local entities.
[Walei]: Right. And that's how, um, a lot of the advocacy has been done over the last 30 years. So the existing accessibility that we have today is because of a lot of hard work, blood, sweat, and tears of advocates, you know, either protesting or calling businesses out publicly or taking them to court. Um, and so we've, we've made a lot of progress, right? We've went from, um, society, any that, you know, rarely ever had ramps and elevators and accessible signage like braille, um, to, you know, having that stuff a lot more available a lot more around, I'm not saying it's everywhere. Yeah. Um, uh, but we've come a long way. Um, and you know, now we're in a place where, you know, I, as a blind person can actually watch a main stream, um, a streaming service such as Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon prime, and actually have audio description. That's not something I could even fathom six or seven years ago. I didn't even think that was possible. And that, that has become possible because of all of the advocacy from the disability community, uh, alongside the, uh, the ADA. So it's the 30th year of the 30th anniversary of it being passed. And, uh, there's been a lot of celebrations. Um, and as we know, it's, uh, it's a virtual age now, uh, we're not, do you know, we're not doing anything in person anymore. So a lot of organizations are doing their celebrations virtually, um, at the Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities, we've put together a calendar of a lot of these events. Most of them are New York City based, but you don't have to be in New York to attend. And they, you know, include, um, events that we are organized ourselves, the New York city mayor's office for people with disabilities, as long as along with other city agencies, community partners, service providers, and so on and so forth.
[Walei]: And the events run the gamut of, you know, uh, disability rights and disability studies discussions. Uh, I've been conducting digital accessibility workshops on how to make your websites, social media documents, uh, and so on and so forth accessible. Um, we've, there's some accessible film screenings, uh, such as Feeling Through, ReelAbilities is having a few film screenings as well. There's verbal, uh, virtual verbal description tours that, uh, museums are having such as the Guggenheim and the Metropolitan and the Whitney Museum. Uh, we have actually a virtual barn tour on the calendar, uh, of a horse barn from Gallop NYC. And that's going to be audio described and it's tomorrow it's on our calendar as well. Um, so, uh, we have a lot going on in this calendar currently, you actually, in including, you know, today's events, we have 36 events happening in the next, you know, um, well for the rest of the month, right. It's, it's the month of July. Um, and we keep updating it and, you know, taking out the events that have already happened to make it more, uh, or easier to, to browse and, uh, sift through, we have filters built into it as well. So you can look for specific types of events, whether they're kid-friendly or audio described or dance or art or advocacy related events. Um, so there's a lot going on and, you know, we encourage you guys to visit our, uh, ADA 30 website and find out, uh, about these, uh, these events and participate. So, um, if you would like to the website, you can sort of go to, to learn about ADA 30 and get to the calendar is nyc.gov/ada30, ADA 30. So nyc.gov/ada30.
[Doug]: Okay. Right. And there's a lot of really, really cool events on there, some of which you described. Um, so please do check that, that out, in addition to of course, tuning into the Feeling Through event that's part of that, that we're really truly honored to be a part of the, uh, Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities celebration.
[Walei]: And that is going to be audio described, correct?
[Doug]: That is, yes. We have an audio descriptive option for that. Um, and to the point of audio description, because, you know, as, as a filmmaker, um, it wasn't until making Feeling Through that I really got to know all of the elements of accessibility in a way, um, that I really wasn't aware of before. Um, can you, can you just, just describe to people that were coming to this for the first time, what audio description is?
[Walei]: Yeah. Um, I like to, you know, lead with it's the audio book version of your video. Um, so an audio description is adding, um, a voice track that describes the visual elements of whatever it is, you know, video content, right. It could be a film, it could be a TV series, or it could be a YouTube video. So just adding a voice track that explains what's happening. Right. And so it could, um, read any text on the screen such as credits or the title. Right. Um, it will introduce the scene. Right. So, um, and in, you know, in a conference room, uh, with a round table, um, a bunch of superheroes sit, sit around the table with Barry wearing various costumes that are colorful, Superman addresses them, or, you know, something like that. Right. So it's, it's very akin to an audio book listening to an audio book. And a lot of my friends actually, who are sighted, end up using audio description to listen to, uh, let's say like Stranger Things while they're doing dishes and not looking at the screen. And so it's supposed to provide that same experience, right? Obviously we're not seeing all of these, the visual nuances, but we're still able to get a full and meaningful story and able to follow the plot and really get to know characters when we hear audio description. And, uh, we do it all without seeing anything.
[Doug]: And, you know, we connected about this earlier in the week, but, you know, again, from the filmmaker's standpoint, um, prior I'd been part of, kind of in a sense, subconsciously part of this like culture, where it was a little bit like thinking of accessibility can be a little bit of a headache or an added challenge onto what's already a really like complicated process of making a film. And it wasn't really, again, until Feeling Through that, I really am, um, embraced it and really hit it head on and embraced it. And something that, you know, Feeling Through specifically is such a visual film. There's, there's very little dialogue that in a case like that, um, audio description is so important, um, for a lot of people to experience it. And it was the first, it was my first personal foray into audio description, and collaborating with a couple people cause I wanted to get some other people's perspectives of how they were viewing the film, to create the script, if you will, for the audio description and then as we're recording the voiceover for it. Um, and it was something that previously might've seemed like, just this extra, like arduous tasks that I had to do. I thought it was really fun creating it and a really great, kind of new way of approaching the story and how to translate it into another mode, to make it not just accessible, but also just, you know, it being this really interesting from a creative standpoint, approaching it in a distinctly different way than I ever had in the past was a really fruitful and, and interesting, um, endeavor.
[Walei]: Yeah. Um, yeah, it is in itself an art form and it could be done, you know, in a way where it's super engaging and fun and it could be done in a way where it's informative. Um, and it could be done in a way where it's no boring or actually actually lacks details that are important to the plot. Um, so, you know, it's about telling a story in it and translating that, um, that experience into an audio experience. Um, so I completely agree, and I recommend for folks who haven't ever listened to audio description, you know, look up stuff on YouTube with the word audio description, or if you're watching any Netflix original shows, they all have audio description. You can just change the language, the audio, from English to English, AD or English audio description. And it just might be an interesting and fun experience that, uh, to check it out,
[Doug]: I'm going to just hold one moment for another interpreter switch. So hang tight. All set. Great. Okay. So continuing, yeah, that's a great suggestion while I, and I think, um, you know, I think, I think people were probably a lot more primed to that experience now, given as you were mentioning the popularity of audio books and, and just how great it can be to, like, I know as a lot and someone who lives in Los Angeles, I spent so much time in my car that I love all things audio related. Cause there's so much time in a car listening to, you know, a podcast or music or a book on tape or audio book that, that could maybe be another thing to try out for someone who maybe wants to catch up or maybe revisit something that a show that they really love, um, and maybe experiencing the new way. So that's a great, a really, really great suggestion there. So I'm going to actually, I, we have a question from Judith. She asks, what progress do you see for disabled people being more accepted and having greater opportunities as part of a larger diversity trend?
[Walei]: That's a great question. I think, um, you know, there's definitely some progress there and, you know, the, the whole initiative of diversity has typically always, um, you know, excluded people with disabilities and, you know, we have a lot of these diversity conversations and they center around race or, um, gender, or, you know, LGBTQ rights and trans rights and stuff like that. Um, and rarely do we ever hear about disability in the, in those conversations. And I think we're, we're definitely starting to hear more and more as, you know, as people with disabilities advocate and sort of insert themselves into those conversations and let people know that they're completely forgetting about us. So I am sort of, uh, seeing more of that happening and even more mainstream, um, you know, more representation in the mainstream with, you know, some recent characters in media have actually been played by disabled, um, actors, um, Feeling Through being one example. Um, but you know, there are shows out there where they're, you know, people with, uh, the disabilities playing those roles instead of, you know, having a sighted person blank, playing a blind person or having, uh, an able body person sit on a wheelchair and pretend that they're a disabled character. Um, and, um, you know, even in social media, I think, uh, the internet has been a great enabler enabler for the disability community to have their ideas and advocacy expressed and shared more widely. Um, that's not to say we are in a perfect place. Um, I just am, I am sort of observing more of that and, you know, hope that we continue to push and, and have more representation, whether it's in media or diversity groups, you know, and, and HR groups as well and, and unemployment, especially, um, there's still a very big employment gap in the disability community.
[Walei]: Um, you know, where I know here in New York city, we have a 70% unemployment rate of people with disabilities. That's not 70% of the disability community that is employed as actually 70% of the disability community is unemployed, which is not true for a lot of the other communities. And we're, we're definitely trying to change that as well by educating, um, employers, businesses, nonprofits, anyone that we could work with at the Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities, we have a NYC at work initiative, it's an employment initiative and we've, you know, successful in connecting with all these different different businesses. And what we do for them is, you know, help them by giving them disability awareness and etiquette trainings, letting them know what, what the accommodations process is for hiring people with disabilities, um, and what, you know, uh, how to interact with your employees, how to make them feel included as well, how to set them up for success. Um, and you know, that team has had, you know, successful outcomes in getting people with disabilities jobs in the last few years. Unfortunately, it's kind of slowed down with the pandemic because, you know, the employment situation is not great for everyone right now. And, you know, people aren't hiring as much
[Doug]: Just with the, with the last like five minutes or so. We have here to kind of work things back to ADA, um, as we look back and, you know, it being the 30th anniversary, what I'm sure this could be a, you know, a much lengthier answer as well, but kind of ensure where do you see, um, as far as where we're at right now, the greatest strengths of, and successes of the ADA over these past 30 years, and where might it be? Might there be the most room for improvement if you will moving forward?
[Walei]: I think just sort of highlight, I think, to reiterate, to reiterate what I said before, um, it's greatest strength in is that it, you know, it, it gives us a legal definition of disability. It protects people with disabilities, from discrimination. It also requires, you know, government and pro affiliates is public accommodations to make their services accessible. That could be their physical infrastructure. That could be their digital services. There's actually been, um, a lot of lawsuits, um, in the last few years regarding website accessibility. So, you know, even websites have to be accessible now. Um, where I, where I see it's sort of, um, are always a failure, but where it's, you know, could be better is that it's, once again, it's a complaint based law. So places that are not accessible will continue to be inaccessible until somebody calls them out on it until somebody submits a complaint, they're not necessarily sort of, um, you know, re uh, yeah, so they don't necessarily have a lot of incentive to do so, you know, unless they are actually more conscious and they wanting, you know, they want to open up their business to more people, right. Because if you make your business successful, then you are welcoming people with disabilities, but not just people with disabilities, the people that they bring with them, right. Their friends, their families. Um, so, uh, where, you know, where it could be better, I think is, you know, more enforcement or, you know, more, um, proactive, uh, you know, uh, a proactive approach, you know, if there's any way to change it, or, you know, if it could change, right. If it could be more proactive and actually requiring businesses to be accessible by a certain time and have more concrete steps to getting there. Right. Um, but, um, where it has been successful is as a complaint based law, it has had a lot of success in getting businesses and governments to be more physically accessible and more digitally accessible. And, um, you know, also as protected, uh, people with disabilities in employment and stuff like that.
[Doug]: No, there's certainly so much, I'd still love to ask you both kind of like our final topic here at the last minute, or so we have, I'm wondering again, in, in short, um, what do you feel is most the most misunderstood element of accessibility for those who perhaps don't require it themselves in certain capacities and what might be your hope for the future around accessibility?
[Walei]: Um, I think to sum it up, and this is not my own quote, this is definitely something that has been said by many people, um, accessibility is for everyone. Um, and I think that whether, you know, you're disabled or not, you could actually benefit from accessibility. Um, whether it's when you change the brightness on your phone or enlarge the font on your device, um, whether you've used captions in a video while, while watching the video before, uh, if you've used a ramp, uh, to help you transport something like, uh, that is large and has wheels and you can't carry upstairs, uh, if you've used an elevator ever, right. Um, accessibility is for everyone. And the more that we think about making our, uh, infrastructure, our society, our services, more accessible, the more we make lives easier for not just other people, but ourselves, especially our future selves, you know, as we grow older and, you know, uh, you know, age people, people will, you know, get some kind of experienced some kind of disability, whether it's vision loss or hearing loss, or, you know, uh, some kind of mobility related issues or, um, so, you know, accessibility is for everyone, I guess, is the, is the, is my answer to that.
[Doug]: I couldn't think of a better way to conclude today's episode with that: accessibility is for everyone. Walei, thank you so much for joining us today, that was really, really, really great stuff. And I hope, uh, I hope we're able to talk again at some point in the future.
[Walei]: Absolutely. If I could encourage everyone to make their digital content accessible, if you're on Instagram or Twitter, please do use all texts to describe the images that you post. Um, and if you could find out more about that on our, uh, accessibility guidance page, which is nyc.gov/accessibilityguides. You can download guides on making your documents accessible, or your slides, your social media posts, as well as your videos.
[Doug]: Amazing. Well, make sure to check that out, and also join us on Thursday, July 16th, for The Feeling Through Experience live stream for ADA 30, www.feelingthrough.com/register. And we'll see you there. Thanks so much, everyone. Bye.