[Doug]: Welcome to episode 14 of Feeling Through Live. Today we're talking with Ryan Odland and the primary topic of conversation is going to be ADA 30. And, you know, how far we've come and where we still need to go. The reason we're spending a lot of time talking about ADA 30 this month, because ADA 30 stands for the 30th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which, turns 30 on, I believe it's July 25th, um, is the 30th anniversary of that act. And we'll be talking about more about what it is, why it's important, um, how it functions, um, the improvements that still need to be made. Um, and, we're very fortunate to be joined by Ryan Odland from the Helen Keller National Center, uh, who knows a ton about all this. And certainly has a lot to say, so hello, Ryan, thank you for joining us again today.
[Ryan]: Hello, this is Ryan. I'm happy to join and, uh, to talk about the ADA this afternoon.
[Doug]: Well, Ryan, you know, one of the things that's really cool here. We're, we're on episode 14 of Feeling Through Live, getting this started, this was born out of really needing to find a way to continue to connect, during COVID. And what's really cool is Ryan, you are our very first guest on episode one. So it's, we'd said back then that we needed to have you back. So it's so cool to have you back here on episode 14.
[Ryan]: Yes.
[Doug]: So, you know, I guess before there's plenty to talk about as far as ADA is concerned, but just to kind of talk about something else first, you know, the very first topic of conversation, something that's obviously still very relevant is COVID, coronavirus something that, certainly has been ramping up lately and being that the very first episode was, was about how COVID was affecting the deaf blind community, I kind of want to just check in with you a number of weeks later for an update on that. Um, if you have anything kind of new to share on that, in that category, since we first spoke, you know, about 14 weeks ago.
[Ryan]: Sure. This is Ryan speaking. There's actually been a lot of changes in these 14 weeks, you know, two and a half months really. Um, you know, we're learning as we go and trying to figure out the best way to keep ourselves safe and, and manage this situation with the pandemic. Um, and for deaf blind individuals really we've been trying to sort of just get our basic needs met and try and find the best approach to that, you know, just are basically needs for a living. And I'm finding even that love and connection and communication with people, um, how, how to shop, um, how to continue working in this new world that we're in and to really just, you know, make sure that we stay healthy and there, it does present a lot of challenges. Um, but we are, you know, keeping busy, finding different resources that are available for accessibility. Um, finding different, um, individuals are able to assist us in our homes and also managing, uh, profitable businesses. Um, just getting every day needs met, like grocery shopping or, you know, continuing to, live our lives and how we approach that, how we do that in the day to day, um, is very different than what it looked like before.
[Doug]: And, you know, when we first spoke about it, a number of weeks ago, COVID was a lot newer then. We were just starting to lock things down. Um, there were still a lot, there were obviously, there's still a lot of questions, but there were even more questions then as to how this was going to play out how much it was going to spread. Um, certainly we're still learning that, but, um, but we're a little farther along now. And I know, you know, obviously in the deaf blind community, specifically a community that often relies largely on touch. Um, there were a lot of concerns specifically around not being able to get the essential services, like a service support provider or a tactile interpreter that are really needed for a lot of the community to function on a regular basis. Has how has that evolved since we first spoke 14 weeks ago, has, has had some of those opened up again in like, you know, safest ways they can do it. Are they still largely not, um, functioning? What changes there have been specifically around the services for the deaf blind community since we first spoke about coven 14 weeks ago?
[Ryan]: Well, really, to be honest with you, Doug, the situation is pretty much the same as it was those 14 weeks ago. Um, you know, there are some one-to-one services that have been implemented now. Um, but there are many services that, you know, are still doing are happening remotely. And, you know, the reason being that the States are still sort of in this process of reopening and some of the vendors and businesses are not yet caught up to speed, you know, as far as their safety plans, they're not necessarily in place with a definitive COVID safety plan. So, you know, it anymore, not everyone agrees on, you know, the wearing of masks and using those that PPE, that personal protective equipment, um, the support services, or, you know, that's still a challenge. And it's really all, you know, just basically because of this health concern, um, support service support providers, SSPs are not comfortable, uh, because of COVID and interpreters are not comfortable to meet one-to-one with deaf blind individuals. So it's something that, you know, we are hopeful and motivated that we'll continue to, to change, but not everyone's on the same page. So to speak at this point, there are a lot of deaf blind individuals who are in isolation and that's a struggle. That's a real struggle right now, uh, due to COVID.
[Doug]: And something I would say is, you know, if there's anyone watching this broadcast, who, who knows anyone who feels particularly isolated in the deaf blind community right now, and maybe doesn't know about Feeling Through, please direct them to that. One of the, one of the primary things we're trying to do during this time is to help keep that community going, and, and, and provide some opportunity for people to still connect albeit, virtually. And certainly that's one of the many reasons we make this as accessible as possible, so that so that everyone can join in. And I also want to note that, Allison Burrows from HKNC has just, um, corrected me here. The ADA was signed on July 26, not 25th. So thank you, Allison, for catching that. And she also notes that two HKNC staff members represented the center at the signing on the South lawn of the white house, which is a very cool piece of history there for Helen Keller National Center. So, so a nice, extra shout out to HKNC today for being a part of that monumental, uh, day there on July 26th, 1990. So thank you Allison for that. Um, so just one more primary question that I have Ryan, um, about COVID before we move into ADA 30 is like you just mentioned, unfortunately, not a ton has changed, um, as far as what's able to be provided how to kind of better things right now. Do you know of, or have any thoughts around any plans for how that can be bettered? Is there a solution or are we still kind of in a waiting game seeing how this all plays out?
[Ryan]: No, I think there are a lot of different approaches, um, you know, for individuals who are deaf blind and, and services that could change, but maybe it's focusing more on family or people in the home, uh, for that support myself. You know, I am an advocacy trainer and I use tactile sign language for communication, uh, for an individual who lives with a roommate who may be willing to facilitate that communication via tactile sign language. Um, then it is possible for me to work with those individuals remotely, if they have that support in their homes and they can continue to learn. Um, but it's definitely, you know, it's a collaborative effort that we all need to really work on together and utilize the resources that we have. Um, but really I think he is the having that, um, knowhow and, uh, ability to advocate for yourself because in a situation like we're under right now with a pandemic, you know, we really have to get creatives and those individuals who are more comfortable with advocacy, you know, maybe it would be able to, um, facilitate that a little better for themselves. So, but we are, you know, developing a plan of service. Um, that's another approach, but really, I think he is just figuring out how to support each other because this is just such a huge impact on everybody. And it changes day to day, week to week. And our perspectives are, you know, understanding how an individual who is deaf blind and what their perspective might be and what their needs might be is important.
[Doug]: You know, Ryan, you mentioned, uh, a very important topic to today's discussion about ADA 30, which is people advocating for themselves, which is certainly a very important aspect of ADA, of the ADA, which we'll get into shortly. Um, and certainly something that we've has proven to be more and more important in what's happening right now in the world. Um, so as we shift into ADA 30 now, um, just for all of you watching, if you're watching on Facebook, please hit the share button, it allows more people to join us, learn about ADA, ADA 30, why it's important, what it is. Um, if you're watching on YouTube, please feel free to share that link with anyone you think might want to join us. We still got plenty to talk about today, plenty of time for people to be joining in. So, uh, please, please do so. So moving on here, Ryan, you know, I think it's still, let's just start simply with, um, you know, there are obviously a lot of people on who, who are familiar with the ADA, but I'm sure there's some people joining us today who aren't. So why don't we just start off with just, um, if you could just explain, you know, what the ADA is?
[Ryan]: Sure. The ADA was passed in 1990 and it is the Americans with Disabilities Act. And the intention of the ADA was really to provide equal rights and equal access to services. And really it's been rooted in a hundred years of many different issues and problems that have arisen over time, but it was formally written into law in 1990. So if you are interested in the history, um, you can look that up, but I think right now we're going to focus a little bit more on the law itself. And there are five different areas that it covers the first being employment, which was a huge part of the law actually. And it protects, uh, individuals who, um, are capable of worthy working, um, with the emphasis on, um, limiting, uh, discrimination, especially during the interview process, if an individual is capable and meets the qualifications for a particular job as an applicant, um, they maybe if they were to use braille, for example, um, it really would focus on the process of the inter uh, interview, which possibly could, uh, add an interpreter as an accommodation, which would be, um, upheld by the ADA. Other individuals may need to incorporate a listing device such as an FM system to be able to, um, go on through that interview and the ADA, um, really institutes reasonable, reasonable accommodations for people in the workplace, as far as accessibility and making sure that they have the exact accommodations that they need set up, so that they are able to perform their job duties. So it's not a mandated requirement. That is one thing I want to make clear. It's just that it's the responsibility of the hiring entity to be aware of and to make those reasonable accommodations for those individuals who need them. So that is, that is the first area.
[Doug]: Ryan, can I, can I just hold for one second there before we move? Because just a question about that first area, because you touched on something that I think is really important. And I know I just learned this recently and I just want to talk about it a little bit more, but you said it's not, it's not like a requirement, but that it's also like making reasonable adjustments. Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that and how that functions? Because I think for me prior to learning about this this month, I assume that there were like very concrete guidelines that people had to adhere to and that there was maybe some authority that was enforcing these and now I've learned that it doesn't quite function like that. So can you, can you explain that a little bit more? Cause I think it's really interesting.
[Ryan]: Sure. No problem. Let me expand on that a little bit. And it is actually reasonable accommodations. That's the formal language that's used within the law. And what that really means is it's focusing how to, um, really meet individuals needs in order for them to perform their job duties. So it's really accommodating that individual within the workplace, in order for them to be able to do their daily job functions. It is not something that is required if it does not pertain to the job duties, if you want to add that additional support, that would really be up to the employer, but in order to meet the responsibilities for the job and the position that they were hired for, that's really what it, what it means. And that's really, uh, an important piece of the law. The second part focuses on state and local governments and pro program services because prior to the ADA, those accommodations were not required to be provided a communication access for programs wasn't necessarily met and those accessibility needs were not necessarily met. So there are other, um, accessibility considerations other than just communication, uh, as it pertains to program services. So for an example, an architect who's designing a building, uh, they have universal design and they all follow that standard. So for example, architects, uh, they would have to include a ramp curves, a certain distance requirements, sidewalks. There are a lot of different examples of what needs to be included in that universal design and stamp building standards that are required as far as accommodations. And that goes for all this construction, public accommodations would be for example, in a restaurant or a hairstylist, a grocery store, uh, different areas like that.
[Ryan]: And those also require accessibility. So for example, um, if you were in a store like Walgreen's a pharmacy, um, the labeling needs to be clear and descriptive, that would just be one example. Another might be in a restaurant, a menu and accommodation to a menu would be that it would include braille or that that menu would be available at least, um, in an airport. Um, the safety procedures, uh, would need to be available readily available, um, in these different ways, just so that they would have that access public transportation, for example, uh, buses, subways, trains, those all need to be fully accessible for individuals with different disabilities and how that might pertain to something like a bus or a train. Uh, for example, driver announcements, typically they're spoken and spoken English, uh, arrivals and destinations. So an accommodation would be having that, um, that captioning up above and signage that's, you know, visible to other passengers who might not be able to access that auditorily. Any information on schedules would need to be readily available in different modes as well, like on the internet, for example. So in the 1990s, deaf individuals used TT wise teletype writers for communications. And that was in lieu of using a phone for vocal calls. But as that use sort of diminished over time, because of course the ADA was established and there was, uh, you know, that requirement for accessibility and communications, various services have added other accommodations for the deaf and deaf blind and their telecommunications. And that's really guided, um, via the law. And that's really been the focus. Yeah. So the ADA is a little, possibly a little outdated, but it is still valid and there are other additional legislations to support as well. Um, so in 2008 there was the addition of additional accommodations, which meant because of the law in 1990. And it was a little vague. It wasn't completely clear. And there had been various, um, court cases and legal battles going back and forth, um, trying to really figure out exactly what the language meant. Congress did pass in 2008 and amendment and as it pertains to language. So since that time, uh, we've been able to preserve the ADA and really build upon it.
[Doug]: So that's a great place to just hold for one moment. We're going to do an interpreter switch. All right. We're all set. Great. So continuing, um, so Ryan, you know, I think it's a good time to go to a couple questions that we have from viewers. Bethany Davis asks is having the digital displays on buses and trains enough for deaf blind people. Is there a better way for public transportation to communicate destinations and routes to deaf blind people?
[Ryan]: This is Ryan signing. Wow. What a fantastic question. And to be honest, the answer is both. Yes and no. For some people, some individuals they can access that depends on what their vision is. There may be some situations where it does and they are able to access it, access it, but some not, there are some tools that are out there we have that are being monetized and we're coming up with new ideas, but they're not quite perfect. So when we encounter an issue and when a deaf blind person encounters that sort of issue on a bus or a train transit system, you know, the transit system sends out those alerts via the phone text. That is one way they can get information. So that resolves that barrier that they might encounter with display by getting those texts, but could also be delayed. So let's say you need some specific information for an accommodation, but you're on the bus, let's say, or you're physically on the train. How do deaf blind people know that they need to get off of a specific stuff that they'd like to get off that, and that requires more communication. We need to still develop that telecommunication to be able to communicate with the driver, for the driver to inform the deaf blind person, the rider, when to get off currently they use communication cards, specifically communication cards, which has a piece of paper that is laminated that the person may write themselves, or they might have a communication book, or even a note pad we'll use that to communicate with the driver. So the driver can inform them when it's their stuff, but that would put a lot of responsibility on the driver. So the ADA does support that the driver must inform the deaf blind person to be able to assist them so they can get to their destination where they need to go, but it requires more training and more collaboration, um, you know, with companies and with businesses to figure out how to develop the technology, to really improve the access.
[Doug]: Yeah. And, you know, Ryan, that brings up a really another important point that we kind of mentioned already, but haven't really opened up, but like the ways in which technology play into this on the one hand, um, technologies and the advancement of technology can provide new elements of accessibility that are really exciting and really valuable. On the other hand, I kind of what you were mentioning before that the ADA kind of needs to constantly be updated to, to meet new technologies and continue to address those. Um, can you talk a little bit more about, the interplay of technology and the ADA?
[Ryan]: This is Ryan. Wow. Technology has a huge impact on our lives as compared to 30 years ago. Wow. You know, computers were just in their baby stages. 30 years ago, internet was in its infancy. People depend on TV for information. Now you can just swipe your device, your iPad, or your tablet or whatever device, your phone even, and just get all the information at the Palm of your hands. People use braille displays, you know, before they were these huge ginormous things. Now they are, you know, they weren't rather than the past, they would have almost like a typewriter, right. And you had this a typewriter where you had to put the paper and I come across, but now there are these sleep little devices that you can carry. It are portable. So there's been a lot of change and that has impacted the lives of deaf blind people dramatically. And there's a lot of pros to that. There's an increase in accessibility. There's an increased information, different kinds of information. In general, our world has more access to information than in the ass and more resources for that. At the same time as the ADA is antiquated, the language doesn't quite fit modern needs and the modern uses of information. And the results of that is we've had to set up new legislation, new amendments to further uphold ADA, and that's going to happen again as modern times change and technology changes our needs, our perspectives, how we get information, communication is going to change, and we will need legislation to more legislation to continue to support the ADA.
[Doug]: You know, to just talk about the way that advocacy and accessibility meet when we're talking about in terms of Feeling Through specifically, you know, for those of you who are watching this live stream right now on Facebook, you'll see that there are live captions. Um, for those of you who are watching on YouTube, there are not live captions. And just to speak about that and where advocacy plays into this, Facebook, um, particularly during the COVID was getting a lot of pressure around being more accessible and making it more accessible. And even in the time that we've been doing these broadcasts, um, they've started having very, very accurate, I will applaud them for this very accurate live captioning that they do automatically, that they provide, um, as a, you know, free service for any public page that's going live. And certainly it helps us greatly providing accessibility. We were working with a live capture each episode prior to that, and it was challenging to do that from a cost perspective. Every time we still, that captioning service is great. And we still work with them a lot during our Feeling Through Experience live streams. But in order to have the, that, you know, a lot of people pressured Facebook to have to provide those live captions on these live videos to make it more accessible. And you know, YouTube, and I'm calling YouTube out here. I don't know if we have a large enough following to do anything about this yet, but YouTube has the capability of doing that, but they're rolling it out a lot slower than Facebook. They, they're only providing it to channels that have 10,000 subscribers or more. We're not quite there yet, but reminder, if you haven't subscribed to our YouTube channel, please do, it'll help us get there quicker. But they're only making it available to pages with 10,000 or more subscribers. And even still they're rolling it out slowly. So that's something certainly that, um, you know, just from a very micro, like lens of looking through Feeling Through eyes here, you know, that's something that certainly bothers me and I've reached out to YouTube about that. Um, didn't hear anything back, but that's something that I'm hoping changes. It feels like such an easy thing to fix, um, in a world where that's such a basic technology that we have something that Facebook is demonstrating very clearly and something that certainly Google, Google and YouTube have the capability of doing, you know, it's obviously easy for me to say, I'm not working on the tech side of those companies, but on the other hand, it's very clear that that's something they could be providing. So I hope that's something that changes soon. You know, that's a place where I'm trying to advocate at least to some degree. Haven't made enough noise yet to enact something. But an example, Ryan, to what you were talking about, about it being important for people to speak up because it really takes that advocacy and that pressure from individuals to create these changes. I know very well because they made a public address, Facebook, that it was because so many people spoke up that they started adding some more accessibility features. So, very much to your point, Ryan.
[Ryan]: This is Ryan. Captioning is one of the largest areas that people that are definitely needed. So for instance, deaf blind people can have the ability to customize captioning is also important. So being able to customize the color, the background, the font color, enlarge the print, so on and so forth, make it bold that would allow deaf blind people to access the cap sheet easier. But most places do not provide that customization in TV. It's becoming more mainstream, there's more options available, but not yet on the internet. That is a challenge and not only Facebook, but in the workplace people encounter when they're doing telework, these challenges. So individuals that are working from home, people that are working virtually joining cop meetings, virtually these are considerations that need to be made and how to make these modifications and accommodations for people that need captioning and to improve accessibility, you know, modifying the background, changing the lighting so on and so forth. The someone's internet speed, all impacts someone's ability to do telework, you know, locally by speed is not that great. It is a challenge for me and that's a challenge to accessibility. So those are issues we're facing today. I have seen improvements, but improvements also take time. We need to continue to advocate once we encounter these issues.
[Doug]: You know, Ryan, I definitely hear you about that internet connectivity. Certainly that's something that's vital to these live streams. And, I have had more than my fair share of phone calls and technician visits since we've been doing these live streams to make sure that they are as clear as possible. And fortunately it's worked, but again, a great example. And actually just to speak to that about, this is a good little micro example, that again, something that I've learned about Spectrum, who is my service for internet provider, who I've spoken with about 40 times on the phone over the last couple months, and also had several technicians come out. And I think this is so related to what we're talking about as far as advocacy and how ADA, the ADA functions were. The last technician that came out to me said the whole way...So when they, when the internet got overloaded at the beginning of, um, uh, quarantine and a lot of areas that weren't used to having this, that amount of traffic were getting overloaded, they put down a lot of new lines, but the only way to know if there's glitches in the lines is if people file complaints, otherwise they're not able to pinpoint where the glitches are. So the whole system is actually reliant on people speaking up and saying when they have a problem, otherwise they don't know which part of the line to address, which is I think, um, thematically is exactly related to what we're talking about. As far as the system of enforcing the ADA and accessibility does not work if people don't speak up. It does not work if someone doesn't go to a business and say, Hey, this is how you are not being compliant to the ADA. You need to adhere to that. And then still doesn't work if that business goes like, we don't care. And that person doesn't follow through on that. So it is, it's so important. And it's something that certainly, you know, can't, um, talk about this right now without mentioning black lives matter. Um, certainly black lives matter and that movement has gained so much power because how many individual people are speaking up and doing something to create this collective movement. So that's certainly something that resonates across the board right now. Um, I'm going to go to another question here, and again, a reminder to all of you watching, you still have a good, a good amount of time left in this episode. If you have any, if you're sitting there with any questions at all, please feel free to type those in the chat box and we'll get to them. Um, this question comes from Christopher Lawrence. Hello, Christopher, thank you for joining us. Um, and he's asks, he says, I assume that mask wearing has made it difficult for the deaf community to read lips and understand facial expressions. When speaking to mask to people, can you speak to this and has it made your personal or your community's life more challenging?
[Ryan]: This is Ryan speaking. Considering the ADA, you know, with this emphasis on is interpreting as an accommodation or effective communication, mask squaring has made it much more difficult because it the face. It's a barrier to communication and social distancing. And again, that social distancing requires six feet of separation that has also made it harder for deaf blind people to get the information they need to get that access to services. Many deaf people rely on touch for access, and you can't use touch anymore because of social distancing, mask wearing really limits access in getting the information you need. So it limits restricts the face. What sort of, um, facial expressions are happening on the face are important to sign language. And without that access there's miscommunication and misunderstanding, being able to use haptics via touch to get that information either on your shoulder, on your back or whatever, that visual information of what's happening around you, including environmental information really helps. You know, and part of that is facial expressions, but now that's even less, that information is not as out there because deaf blind people have to use social distancing. So we have to teach individuals out there, how to use the support we need such as haptics for communication, so on and so forth, but it is restricted now wearing gloves as a source, as a way of protection is another challenge. Interpreters and service providers art at is not willing to support because of fear. And the fear is around the coronavirus. It's limiting the, our deaf blind people's ability to get the services and for the people providing the services too. So it's really become very sticky where the ADA is here because there's a law that requires the services to be provided. But at the same time, there's this health, health restrictions and considerations. So where do those two align with each other? You know, there, where is the common ground in the middle where it's okay to do something, given both the law and the current form of buyer's situation. So it's tough. It's murky waters.
[Doug]: I'm going to go to another question here from Judith almond. She asks Ryan, can you talk about water, more recent, big victories for the ADA?
[Ryan]: And this is Ryan. There several really there's many, but I'll give you a few examples. I will mention to you, the first are various apps and programs that you would use maybe on your phone to order food. Let's say you want to order Domino's pizza, or perhaps you might even want to use Instacart for delivery food service. Those are two apps that previously were not accessible and via complaints and back and forth, it was resolved. Media reports that they had to redesign their programs to be more accessible with braille displays. So that's one pro that's one positive thing, outcome for deaf blind people is now we can rely on getting food through our, you know, apps to deliver to our home. Just like everybody else does. We are healthy just like everybody else. So another example of the ADA law is that it has reduced the amount of discrimination in employment services. More and more people can gain employment. And that's good. We are still behind the times. There's still a high percentage of hypersensitive unemployment rates for people with disabilities, but the numbers have gotten better. We need to consider how to improve, improve the employment environment for people with disabilities. And especially for deaf blind people, how can they get a job and successfully do that job? Like making it more accessible in the past. That's why people were considered unemployable that can't work. They can't hold a job. We should just stay home, take home with their family that will take care of them. Now, however, with the law and the laws protection of their rights, it is commonplace. Now that deaf blind people can work, they might need some sort of advocacy or some sort of support. And the law provides that support or does whoever still need to be in education, conversation and dialogue identifies problems and solutions because, you know, it comes down to money. A lot of times some resources can be afforded some cannot, but it's really, you want to have people supporting and advocating for each other rather than let's say bloody heads. So really focusing on advocacy to find the solutions to satisfy everyone in a given situation to make sure everyone's needs are met, is important.
[Doug]: Very well put, Ryan. And, you know, with the, um, the final about, you know, nine or so minutes we have here, something that I think might be interesting to touch on if you'd like to share Ryan, I know that, you know, when we were speaking earlier this week, you, you had a personal story about, um, I believe, but when you were back in grad school, that was kind of like an anecdote around, um, this, this notion of like advocating for and pushing on a topic to, to effect change. Is that something you'd like to share?
[Ryan]: This is Ryan. Sure. One example how times have changed is in education today in education. There's an extra emphasis on internships and practicum and using internships and practicum to really get your hands in there, really to get that hands on experience. And now today with more services provided through vocational rehab, there's more people out there in the workforce, and there is a lot of debate and stuff, but there's a lot of situations where that hands on experiences and for students who want to be interns there's issues that do come up such as issues for transportation out to get from point a to point B in a given area. In my local area to get to where I need to work. There was no reasonable accommodation because at that time it was just going to take two, three, four hours just for me to get to this site that I needed to be at. And there was another site that was a little bit better. Um, there was some back and forth. There was some issues that came about during this, uh, during my internship also there's issues with accessibility in the classroom. So when I was done with my descriptions that I had to complete my duties, I had to either my internship for graduate school, I then needed to teach. And there was a very large struggle around that because I didn't the reasonable accommodations in place. And so some of those accommodations were around communications. So there were a lot of frustrations that came about a lot of issues because the program didn't really have the options I needed more made the modifications. So I wanted to be able to do one on one teaching as opposed to classroom too. And it was very frustrating. You know, people are like, Oh, you know, all this frustration, all these headaches, all of that. And that's a modification is to make it accessible. There needs to be guidelines for the school program or rather the educational program that needs to consider accessibility and what that looks like on an individual basis, rather than just saying, everyone has to follow a walls, a through Z coming up with these guidelines. And so that for me, was extremely frustrated and caused a lot of, yes, just these modifications, just these changes that need to happen, can improve everyone's experience. And luckily I had the skills and knowledge to be able to advocate, you know, I wasn't a straight a student. I wasn't necessarily the best student in the class, but I had to speak up and get the internship I needed. And I, you know, I don't want to look foolish during this internship. So I needed to speak up. And I did that through advocating through discussions to figure out what would work. And if we couldn't come up with a social, the first time we go out to plan B as well as I would go up a chain of command. And, you know, I went to the civil rights office even as far up to try and resolve these issues. And there's pros and cons to that, you know, in making resolution to these issues. But the ADA protects this type of work and it's applicable in these types of challenges with barriers. So I had to go back to the program and really work with them even further to get what I needed, to be able to finish my requirements for my graduate degree. And it was a combination really of both the ADA and me advocating that really helped me to get through this challenging time. It's a, it's really a two way street. It wasn't just the ADA alone. It was both the ADA and myself advocating for the change that I needed in my book.
[Doug]: So we have, um, one more question here and from Nilam. Hello. Thank you for joining us again. She's from the NFADB, the national federation...national family association for the deaf blind. Um, you can check them out. They're a great organization. Um, and she asks, is there any research on income disparity between deaf, the deaf blind population and the general population, um, and within the deaf blind population as well?
[Ryan]: I just to clarify the question is about, um, the disparity in income, correct. So I just want to clarify the question. This is mine and considering the accessibility issues and the barriers for people that are deaf blind, as well as maintaining their independence, you know, how to become successful at work, using technology and various tools and knowledge and knowledge of the ADA deaf blind community and deaf blind individuals might feel that others out there don't understand what their needs are. They may feel more limited when in fact, mentally they're not limited in capabilities, but others might perceive them to be that way. So they need to advocate and educate and speak up expressing their thoughts and their concerns, explain what they can do compared to the past where there was focusing on limitation. Now we're focused more on the individual strengths and by focusing on the individual strengths, that changed our perspective and it changes other people's perspective on those individuals with disabilities is there's a, you know, the cultural competency and fitting with those around them. So it's very important to learn advocacy because that really helps individuals in the community and working with other people to identify solutions. You know, the, the law is powerful, but it also is about us empowering ourselves and working to identify the solutions and coming up to figure out how to change these barriers and make it ultimately a positive situation. So that's really the big picture. Deaf blind people really need to learn about that. And the deaf blind community knows about that, but needs to inform other people who might, and that way we can all work together to make change. And that's a really important consideration.
[Doug]: Well, thank you for that, Ryan, and thank you for all of you joining us today. Um, we will be back next week, same time, same place. Um, and again, just a couple reminders. Um, if you are watching on Facebook, uh, please make sure you're liking our Facebook page and also subscribing to our YouTube page and vice versa for our YouTube subscribers, please. Also, in addition to subscribing to our channel, please like our Facebook page and in our other or other social medias that you might use more our Twitter or Instagram, or @feelingthrough on all the things or youtube.com/feelingthrough. Um, and it's really a great way to stay in touch with all of the screening announcements. We have new episodes and a lot of other really exciting stuff we're going to be talking about soon. And in fact, um, and even better way to stay up to date on everything is if you go to feelingthrough.com and you sign up for our mailing list. We actually just announced our next, uh, the next chance to see The Feeling Through Experience live stream, um, which will be on Tuesday as part of the Indy Shorts Film Festival. We'll be doing the whole Feeling Through Experience there. Um, so you can find out more information by following our social media and signing up for our mailing list. Um, and we have a lot of other really exciting announcements that we'll be making soon. Um, and again, if you enjoy this and you, you know, friends or family or colleagues that you think might find this interesting or benefit from it, please do share it with other people as well. And lastly, in celebration of ADA 30, we have some really cool, special ADA, 30 Feeling Through gear in our store at feelingthrough.com/store. So check that out. We also have a bunch of other stuff in there that's really cool, some really great designs. And, as always a portion of the proceeds goes directly to Helen Keller Services and the rest helps fund future Feeling Through Experiences and endeavors. So thank you all. I hope you have a wonderful weekend and we will see you next week. Bye everyone.