>> DOUG: Welcome to Episode 15 of Feeling Through Live. I'm very excited to be talking with Brian Switzer today from Perkins School for the Blind. He's a marathoner, he's lived a very interesting and diverse life. So, you know, Brian there's so much to talk about today. Obviously the 30th anniversary of the ADA is in a couple of days. Certainly I want to touch on that. But I'd love to hop right into your life. Let's go all of the way back. Let's start at the very beginning of little baby Brian. You take us back. But I'd love to hear kind of about your early childhood to kind of orient everyone to you. You have had such an interesting journey from then until now. I know that's like ‑‑ I didn't even ask you how you're doing yet. I'm just asking you to tell ‑‑ why don't we start there. Let's start there actually, Brian. I love to ask guests: How have you been feeling through the last several months, your experience?
>> BRIAN: It's going really well. My wife and I are pretty fortunate to be doing ‑‑ staying healthy and doing quite well through the coronavirus and everything going on in to world. We are doing great.
>> DOUG: I'm glad to hear that. It's certainly a challenging time for lots of people. But I'm glad to hear in cases where people are doing well. It's a time for people, it's been a useful time to learn new things or kind of address certain things that may be they didn't normally have time to get to. But I'm glad to hear you're doing well. Let's hop ‑‑ let's hop right into it. Can we ‑‑ let's go back, can you take me through the earliest years of your life here. There's a lot to spring off to that to get to. But let's go all the way back there.
>> BRIAN: Definitely. As you probably already know I have deaf‑blindness. Severe hearing loss and I normally make out a little light visually. That's because of genetic condition called Usher's syndrome. You are born with it, obviously. I was first diagnosed with hearing loss at the age of 2. They noticed I was not speaking at the normal rate. It took me a while to actually begin speaking. So my parents started me on the path of learning Sign Language as my primary language. And so I started off at a school for the Deaf a a child. I went to the Boston School for the Deaf that is unfortunately no longer in existence. After that I moved to the Learning Center. After that I transitioned into a public school with an intervener. So I was diagnosed with hearing loss at age 2. Then the vision piece was diagnosed really young for someone with Usher's syndrome. I was diagnosed with vision loss at the age of 4. That's because I had difficulty reading the blackboard. Back in the day, I don't know if people remember before whiteboards there was a thing called blackboards. You had color chalk and the contrast was really difficult for me to make out. The teacher noticed if I was entering a room, if the lights would be too bright, I would suddenly be blinded by the light. And I was awed for a second. It's unusual for a child to stop moving. At the school for the Deaf they were really familiar with Usher syndrome. So I went to see the specialist to make sure my eyes were okay. Unfortunately, I ended up being diagnosed with vision loss, Usher syndrome affects your hearing but also effects your retinas. There's no cure or anything for Usher's syndrome. A progression of vision loss, it starts on the outside and then over the years you form tunnel vision and eventually that tunnel vision closes up. Sometimes people are fortunate and live their entire lives with some form of vision. That's lucky for them. My vision started closing up and I started losing my central vision at the age of 24. I had to learn how to adapt after that.
>> DOUG: Just to go back to that moment, your parents learned about the hearing loss at the age of 2. Then at the age of 4 is when the Usher's syndrome diagnosis was made. Just from as much as you can speak for your parents, how do you articulate their experience knowing that obviously first that to the learning of your hearing loss and then finding out you were going to lose your vision. Have you had discussions with them or have a good finger on the pulse of what their experience was like a that time.
>> BRIAN: Yeah, we have had a lot of dinner discussions about what it was like when I was a child. One thing my parents found was having reached out to people in the Deaf community, they were able to kind of figure out I could lead a fairly normally life. They had a priest named Father Murphy. He had significant hearing loss and was living a normal life. He told my parents to hold me to high expectations and what I could do with a normal life. In my parents' view they would have kept me in bubble wrap if they had had their way. But I was a kind of strong headed child and kind of wanted to do my own thing. So, actually when I was age 4, I even told a teacher I knew how to swim and I didn't. I learned how to swim by jumping into the deep end of the pool and I had to teach myself how to swim. That's the kind of stuff my parents had to put up with when I was a child.
>> DOUG: I love this. As we get further into this conversation, we will see that little anecdote you have about lying you could swim and jumping into the pool and figuring it out. Is a larger metaphor for how you lived your life and at least the prior conversation I had with you. I love that. You couldn't come up with a better mini story to kind of embody like a ‑‑ one of the major themes of your life. I love that idea too. The fact that there are parents obviously like any parent wants to have the best for their kid and want that kid safe and taken care of. If and certainly of any parents of a young child anything that seems like it could pose a "extra threat" to their child is a touchy thing. You didn't really give them a chance to pin you down there. You were just who you were as a child kind of they had to roll with the punches it sounds like.
>> BRIAN: [nodding head]
Yeah, exactly.
>> DOUG: Do you have any siblings?
>> BRIAN: We have three brothers many if that helped a lot. We were always getting in trouble together. We did a lot of things that you know normal siblings would do. My parents always expected them to include me in everything. If they were going roller skating with friends my parents expect them to bring me along. I was always expected to be fully included in my family. They never treated me different. It achieved a lot of how my brothers grew up. They would be the first to help someone with disability they see on the street. Being familiar with the Deaf and Blind community, they know how to assess people in a way the average hearing, sighted person wouldn't know how to help someone. They are obviously all hearing and sighted.
>> DOUG: You have three brothers that are hearing and sighted and you have Usher's syndrome, you're Deaf and Blind. What are any of the odds of any of your siblings to have Usher's syndrome?
>> BRIAN: It's 1 in 4 chance and I happen to be the 1 in 4.
>> DOUG: You literary hit that percentage right on the dot there, the Switzer family.
You said from a young age your parents encouraged all of you to partake in all of the activities together. It sounds like your brothers treated you like any of their other brothers. Did you ever find at any point growing up is that your brothers felt like more protective of you? Or felt there was a need to be? Or was that not really part of your dynamic with your brothers.
>> BRIAN: They definitely would have helped me out in any way that they could. I never felt I needed protection. Most of my classmates treated me pretty well. I don't think anyone ever treated me any different. They knew I knew Sign Language. So that was a tool I was able to use in my favor. Because I had friends that are were interested in learning Sign Language. It's a fascinating language that they were not familiar with obviously. So, I never felt unsafe or anything. I always had a good group of friends who watched out for me.
>> DOUG: I imagine the 4 year old that is going the lie to their teacher that they can swim and jump in the deep end. It doesn't sound like they need other people to look out for them.
>> BRIAN: [chuckling]. Obviously.
>> DOUG: Does your family all know how to sign.
>> BRIAN: The majority of my family knows how to sign. My parents and brother. Some of my cousins. My younger cousin learned how to sign in college. He knows a bit now. I went to a thing may be 5 years ago with my older brother DJ, I was really impressed he was able to sign back and forth with a person that was Deaf and it blew me away. He never really uses it and something from when we were kids kicked in and he was able to sign away.
>> DOUG: You talked about initially going to the Boston School for the Deaf then you transitioned to the public-school system. What was the main reason for that transition there?
>> BRIAN: The Boston school ended up closing so that's why we transferred to the learning center. My parents were the one of the main advocates for opening the learning center. To they had other locations but they ended up opening one near us for the specific reason to move the kids from the Boston school to the learning center. They were great advocates at the moment. Then the academics in the school that I went to weren't challenging me enough. My parents really wanted me to attend public school so I would be challenged more academically and can compete with my peers. I know we did really well in school. Obviously even now I'm completing a second masters. So I really enjoy school and it comes easily to me. So my parents just wanted to give me a little bit more of a challenge and be more integrated with my peers.
>> DOUG: So you mentioned that like it sounded like you had like a pretty good childhood in the sense when you're mentioning like your peers treating you quite well. But did you find any distinction between your peers in the Boston school for the deaf then when you went to public school. Did you find any different dynamics between the other kids in your class?
>> BRIAN: Yeah, one key difference I found it really difficult when I first transferred to public school because everyone was speaking at the same time. When you're in a group of people that are Deaf only one person is signing at the time and everyone is focused on the one person, probably because it's so visual. When I went to public school all the sudden there was 10 or 15 people speaking at once. That was really challenging. I also found it different in culture. People who are Deaf tend to sit together a lot more than the general public. So, the other big change over all though at the end of the day people are people. You know, at a school for the Deaf or public school you have really intelligent people, really nice people, really kind people. You get to know all sorts of life.
>> DOUG: Yeah, did you find just as far as the dynamic goes, did you find that like your friends and peers in public schools started the learn when you were like in a group with them talking to like talk more one at a time or not all at the same time? Did they make certain adjustments in that sense?
>> BRIAN: Yeah, a lot of my peers were really good at speaking at me, making sure I read their lips. At the time I was able to read lips. Obviously where my vision is now, I wouldn't be able to read lips anymore. But at the time they made sure they got my attention, tap me on the shoulder and speak directly at me. So they adjusted in order to accommodate me. Which was wonderful.
>> DOUG: So, you know a really important part from I remember from our conversation before when you were at the public school at this point, you are obviously having ‑‑ you have good relationships with your peers and you're doing well at school. But can you tell us what an intervener is and how the intervener played a role in your experience.
>> BRIAN: At a Deaf school you have an intervener that works one‑on‑one with the deaf and Blind. So when I transferred to the public school it was a difficulty to hear and she was hired as an interpreter. She would sit next to the teacher and interpret into Sign Language and what the teacher was saying. In addition to that role of accommodating for my hearing loss, she would also make sure I had accommodations in place so for instance I mentioned earlier that I couldn't read a Blackboard, so she made sure my classroom for the following year had a whiteboard in it. It was pretty unpopular at the time. Now I think every classroom in it has a whiteboard or smart board in there.
She would do he other things too. She would make sure I was able to use erasable pens in a math class rather than a pencil. She made sure that the paper grid lines were bold and big and easier for me to see. She made sure the lighting was appropriate for my vision loss. She made sure that I had access to wide print. So I took a few exams and they were usually in large print. So it's easier for me to read and see. She did a lot of things on that nature. It was kind of you know double duty between making sure that my hearing loss needs were met and my vision loss needs were met.
>> DOUG: So what was the intervener's name?
>> BRIAN: Debbie Winkler.
>> DOUG: So it's the same intervener with you day in and day out correct?
>> BRIAN: Yes, she was the only one, with me day in and day out. We actually worked together from the time I was in first grade all of the way until the end of college. We worked together on a daily basis for 15 years straight. Which is pretty unbelievable. I don't know very many people that work with people for that long and that intermittently.
>> DOUG: Unbelievable. That's interesting relationship there. Let me get is this straight. You have an intervener who is someone that is both helping facilitate various things that need to happen in class and sometimes advocating for certain things, like a whiteboard instead of a blackboard to make sure things are suitable for you. And really kind of like just helping in all different accounts to help facilitate a successful educational experience for you on a day‑to‑day basis. And again, Debbie your intervener is the same intervener with you every day, every school day with you for 16 years, correct?
>> BRIAN: Yes, in a lot of ways I saw her more than my parents. Just being you're in school all day. By the time you get home you might be home by yourself for a few hours. Then your parents get home from work. Then it's night time and you're going to bed. In a lot of ways I saw her more than my own family.
>> DOUG: That's really interesting. I'm sure you form quite a bond with someone you spend that much time with.
>> BRIAN: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it really is difficult to explain to some people that kind of relationship. In English we don't really have a word for it. She is not really a friend, not really a coworker. It's difficult to explain what kind of relationship we had.
>> DOUG: I love that you’re saying, thinking there's not even a word for it. So interesting. Maybe Brian you will be the one that comes up with a new appropriate term for that what that very unique relationship is.
>> BRIAN: [chuckling].
>> DOUG: Again, I'm really fascinated by this. I don't think there's many people in their daily lives who can, again, because you said there's no word for it, I don't think there's a lot of people that have someone in their lives in that capacity. It's someone you see in many ways more than your parents and brothers. I grew up with a fraternal twin brother Al. If you are watching now, shout out to Al. Even having a twin brother that I shared a room with, perhaps I didn’t seen him as much as your intervener you spend a lot of time with. She's with you in every class throughout the school day or every class, is that how it works?
>> BRIAN: Yes, she would attend all of the classes with me from the beginning of school day to the end. One of the things she really hated when I was in college I took a multivariable calculous class. I love mathematics and she did not. So I tortured her by take act all he have on these ridiculous classes.
>> DOUG: I love that. It speaks to the dynamic. On to the one hand her job the is to facilitate. On the other hand you spend so much time together, and she's also human that has her likes and dislikes and she was like "oh my God, these advanced math classes, what am I supposed to do here?"
[chuckling]. I can imagine I don't have the capacity for math that you do. I would struggle as well. Is she better at math as result of being your intervener for so many years.
>> BRIAN: I don't think she would say that. Mathematics, it's a lot of problem solving and having the problem in front of you. One of the interesting things about interpreters that often times they cannot even following the conversation. They are interpreting so fast. A shout out to the interpreters that are interpreting this. They are interpreting so fast they don't know exactly what they are interpreting. Their brains have to quickly switch between one language and another. And interpretation is not the same thing as word‑by‑word translation. In a lot of ways you have to get good at explaining what is going on. You have to be able to take a sentence in English and make it so it makes sense in Sign Language. It's a really difficult job. And then to do it at the speed someone is talking. And that's really difficult.
>> DOUG: That's really well put. Maybe it's the New Yorker in me, I can sometimes get into the habit of talking quite fast. So I definitely been more cognizant about when there's an interpreter involved to try to not be as New York in my speed in which I speak.
[chuckling].
But, Nilam who is watching, she's one of the board members for NFADB. The National Family Association for the DeafBlind. In this chat here she's writing: Having a great Deaf Blind intervener who is not scared to represent and advocate for your child is a huge help for a Deaf‑Blind student and even their parents. And Nilam has a child that is Deaf‑Blind. And she says sometimes we have interveners that are fearing that their own job security. Is that something you ever experienced or heard of yourself?
>> BRIAN: Yeah, can you repeat the question.
>> DOUG: Yeah, the second part of what she wrote: Sometimes we have interveners that fear to represent and speak up for the child fearing their own job security.
>> BRIAN: Definitely. In Debbie's particular case she never felt afraid to speak up for me. My parents knew her from ‑‑ we started the teacher at the Boston School for the Deaf. We were familiar with her before we started working together, when she was hired on as my intervener. So my parents never felt like she would never stand up for me me if anything happens. But I've definitely heard of cases where interveners and interpreters in had the classroom who would decide not to stand up for the child if they are being bullied and bullied by a teacher. And that's a really scary scenario to be in. I heard of children who are Deaf be moved into other schools on account of that. Because the parents no longer felt like the school had the child in mind.
And that's really depressing. Luckily there's a lot of great, wonderful schools out there like Burton school for the Blind that always do the best thing for the child.
>> DOUG: Yeah, again, it sounds like in all things, you can have someone who is really well suited and does a great job. And sometimes people don't in any field. And sounds like given at least imagining the length of time you spend with your intervener Debbie, that she was a good match.
>> BRIAN: Yeah, definitely.
>> DOUG: So I'm going to hold for one minute here, we are going on do a interpreter switch.
Alyssa, good to go. Excellent.
So if you like what you're seeing hit the share button on Facebook. If you are watching on You Tube paste the links to someone that thinks this is valuable here. If I've learned a lot about have interveners what they are and can the relationship they have. I guess you wouldn't say student. The intervener and what is the other side of that? Would you say? Because you're ‑‑ you are not their student but they are your ‑‑ I again, I guess we are figuring out the right. There's not really great words for such a unique relationship.
>> BRIAN: [nodding head]
>> DOUG: Such an interesting vain of conversation there.
>> BRIAN: I guess student.
>> DOUG: Yeah, I guess student, right.
So continuing on here. So again your intervener Debbie is with you throughout college. And you were talking some of the intense math classes. What did you major in this college. What was that?
>> BRIAN: So we have a double major in economics and Philadelphia with a minor in German. I started out as a math, biology double major and slowly transitioned towards economics and philosophy. I had to take a few courses in German in order to fulfill my language requirement. Continued on with it and got a minor. My intervener Debbie recommended I learn German it's one of the easier languages to learn if you have a hearing loss because all of the letters are pronounced. It's very easy to follow. Although a lot of sounds are really harsh. They have a harsh CH sound they use. It's probably the ugliest language out there. Nobody would deny that. But it's really a wonderful way to meet other people and travel around and I studied abroad in Germany and loved it. So it's been a great tool for me.
>> DOUG: That's so interesting that I didn't know that before you said that. That German is like very hearing loss friendly language, because it's so, everything is pronounced so acutely. So I guess like again, it's not the prettiest language per se but one of the positives of that is it's easier to hear.
>> BRIAN: Yes, definitely.
>> DOUG: Interesting, it sounds like you took all of the easy majors in college, economics and can philosophy and German and math and biology. Really coasting along there.
>> BRIAN: Yeah, I really enjoy learning. Obviously that's how I became a teacher. I really enjoy learning new things and challenging my brain to learn new things. And so I'm really fascinated. One thing I love is languages. Because I started off at the School for the Deaf that everything was in Sign Language then public school where everything is in English. There's so many misconceptions between the Deaf community and the broader public. So that really got me to thinking about how languages change our perception of other people. And so, I really enjoy learning languages, because it's a way to connect with other people.
>> DOUG: Yeah, you know, I think also like I'm curious about the teaching part that you just mentioned. The being a teacher. There's obviously been a couple of incarnations of you as a teacher. Can we talk right after college what you were teaching?
>> BRIAN: Definitely, right after college I got a job as a para professional then in the evening I would teach high school math. I taught remedial math. So getting a student up to where they should be given their grade level. After that, I went to a different school system and taught high school math full time. I really enjoyed its. Unfortunately as my vision got worse and worse it got harder and harder to teach high school math. As you can imagine a lot of students still use pencil and paper to write out problems and erase things and move numbers around. That got really difficult to read. It became impossible the grade students homework. I ended up leaving that job because of the challenges I faced. Other challenges as well, just from trying to manage the classroom. So I end up leaving there. I started at the Carol center for the Blind. A rehab program for adults with vision loss. They started teaching me all of the skills I really needed things like Braille, using the long cane. They taught me how to use a Braille display. They taught me how you JAWed the text to speech software program. If I had known those things prior to each my jobs a high school math teacher, I could have probably saved the job and continued teaching as a Blind teacher. But because I had left I ended up transitioning to typing assistive technology. That's what I teach now at Burton school for the Blind. Teaching assist I have technology. What that means is teaching a lot of the technologies that help enable people with disabilities to access the same technologies as everyone else. So for example, I mentioned JAWS, text to speech program that allows me to use the computer it reads allowed everything on the screen. Braille display translates into Braille so you can use your fingers. Then the simpler magnification programs things that allow you to zoom in and zoom out. There's letter contrast programs. For example, if you open up a Microsoft Word document, you get the really bright white light, black lettering. For a lot of people with certain visual impairments, the bright white light is too much on their eyes, it starts the hurt their eyes. They actually prefer a black background with white or yellow letters. It's a lots gentler on the eyes. So I teach assistive technology for the career launch program at Perkins and the assistive technology and a lot of software problems that assistive technology interact with. As I mentioned my software we teach Google Docs, Google Sheets and so on.
>> DOUG: To go back as a high school teacher for a moment, so you mentioned that as your vision loss increased, it posed some additional challenges and was kind of time to move to a different pace and ultimately become a teacher at Perkins. You also mentioned some dynamics in the classroom were a little bit challenging. Can you expand upon that a little bit.
>> BRIAN: Yeah, definitely. From a mobility perspective, as your vision deteriorates it becomes really hard to travel around and feel safe to travel around. Because you trip over things. So learning orientation mobility really helped. As far as in the classroom, if you miss certain things, certain behaviors those things tend to escalate. A student misbehaves slightly they notice that you didn't notice it and they start to escalate the behavior a bit. As a classroom teacher some teachers say they have eyes in had the back of their head. They say that because they are constantly watching the class and making sure people are a behaving and that the classroom is running smoothly.
>> DOUG: Do you find as best as you can speak the your experience that your students a the that high school treated you any different than they would any of their other teachers?
>> BRIAN: For the most part no. They were wonderful students. I taught AP calculous, AP certificate and algebra 2 class. A lot of them were very well rounded students who did really well in school and were focused and can so I never felt like they treated me differently.
>> DOUG: So, now back to Perkins where you are currently a teacher. Can you tell us a little more about Perkins? I have heard about Perkins for quite a long time. It's definitely a well known institution. But I didn't really know a lot about the specifics until talking with you. Maybe you can share a little bit more about Perkins?
>> BRIAN: Yeah, Perkins School for the Blind is the oldest school for the Blind in the U.S.
It dates back to the 1800s. It also has a really rich tradition in Deaf‑Blind culture. If Perkins is known for educating the first Deaf‑Blind person in the world. Laura Bridgman came to Perkins. She was Deaf‑Blind, she lived in New Hampshire. She really broke the soil for everyone else in that she proved that a Deaf‑Blind person could be educated prior to Laura Bridgman nobody thaws someone that was Deaf‑Blind could be educated. She herself taught any Sullivan how to sign. They were close friends. And later on any Sullivan went on to teach Helen Keller. If all three of them were students at one point at Perkins School for the Blind. Any Sullivan and Helen Keller one of the most famous Deaf Blind people out there she attended Perkins Deaf school for the Blind.
>> DOUG: That's quite a history. Especially when you talk about the distinguishable names that come up in Deaf‑Blind history. That's certainly a strong connection to Perkins, that's really interesting.
So, let's talk about marathons of which you have run your fair share. Can you just talk about first off you're just like how you got started as a runner? And how long that's been part of your life?
>> BRIAN: Yes running has been a part of my life for a long time. When I was younger I started off playing tee ball that was the first sports my parents got in into. I couldn't see the ball. They put me way in the out field and they hoped the ball would never could come to me. And then I couldn't find it. I hated it.
>> DOUG: Do you have flash backs to little league that was moderately scarring? But keep going.
>> BRIAN: Yeah, it was definitely challenging so luckily my parents let me quit that. I ended up playing soccer and basketball. It was a little easier because the ball was bigger than that regular baseball. It was easier to follow. Basketball became really challenging given the speed the ball traveled at it was hard to follow the ball. And then in junior high it got too challenging. Mainly it was too difficult to follow the ball and figure out the lines in the graph. The contrast is not great having white or yellow lines and green grass. After that I ended up joining the cross country team. That was wonderful. Because when you're running you don't really have to follow a ball or anything. Often times there are a lot of other people had in the race with you. So you followed them. You don't even have to follow the path or anything. I found that to be really easy. Unfortunately, so I ran cross country through high school and kind of ran on my own through college. Unfortunately after college my vision got to the point where I really couldn't run any more. That was really difficult. I used running as a stress reliever. It is so helpful to have that dopamine kick after a run, where you're in a great mood because you pushed your body and you just ran 5 miles. So that is a big challenge to have that kind of stress reliever in my life as I was going Blind. So I took a few years off then a friend reached out to me and asked me if I wanted to run a half marathon. And I was like ‑‑ you know, I don't know how to run any more. And he was like well we will figure it out. I can guide you using a piece of rope. I was like that's a great idea. Let's try it. We were running to support two girls with Usher's syndrome. They wanted to good see France before going Blind. So we were raising money for the two girls. And I would have gone to the ends of the earth for. I told them let's do it. We ended up running the United Airlines half marathon and New York City.
>> DOUG: Was that one of your first marathons?
>> BRIAN: That was my first half marathon. Then my friend Marco said let's do something a little bit harder, let's try to do a full marathon and see if we can do it. I said sure. And so Perkins reached out to me and asked if I wanted to run the marathon in Alaska called the Equinox Marathon. It's largely considered the fifth hardest marathon in the world. Mainly the altitude climbs and the weather. If the temperature can vary greatly. So he ‑‑ so we decided to do it together. The full marathon. It was my first time doing a marathon. I was a little crazy to do that marathon as your first one. The ‑‑ there were a lot of challenges. For one thing you start off going uphill. You climb up over ester dome which is really tall and really steep you run up it, you run down the back of it. You circle back and run down it. As you're ascending up, it started snowing because obviously you're at a higher altitude. One of the things that I hadn't prepared for is the fact that I wouldn't be able to use my hearing aids because obviously with the wet weather they can damage the electronics and hearing aid. So, I end up having to take them off during the race. So we kind of had to figure out how to communicate non‑verbally so that he could still guide me. The other challenge we really weren't prepared for is the fact that some of the trails were one person wide. I had gotten really used to running beside him with the rope. And the nice thing about that, you can keep the rope nice and tight and there's a lot of tension and you can kind of feel where he is. Unfortunately when you're going one by one, and I had to be directly behind him, wed we had to make the rope longer so that tension and tactile feedback to know where he is related to you and knowing where you're going was not really there. We also played a lot of games during the race. So are for one thing we were joking he would tell me to lift my legs for rocks or duck under things that were not really there. It was definitely a fun experience.
>> DOUG: So much that was so great. But knowing after running a half marathon it's not let's run a marathon, it's let's run the fifth hardest marathon in the world. Which is indicative to the 4 year old that lies to the teacher that he knows how to swim and he jumps in and figures I the out. I love that. But again, that speaks to again it's in that 4 year old that you talked about. But again, why you have been so successful in so many things, just that really innate sense of wanting to kind of jump into life and not being afraid to jump in head first and figure it out ASL you go. You're obviously a smart person, that really helps. But that's so well embodied in your story as a 4 year old and how you approach running. So it's really interesting to hear, are I guess I didn't even think about the fact that like someone who obviously wanted to be athletic and participate in athletics that for practical reasons running was a really great one. Given the fact that certain challenges you described about following a ball or following the pace of something, that running was something that was practical and had a lot of practical elements and allowed you to then again a heavy degree of being able to just rely on yourself. And then as your vision declined, finding a crafty way to be able to run along side someone with a rope. And using that tactic and again not quite to the degree of intimacy as a intervener per se, but certainly you want to have a pretty good relationship with and feel like whoever you are running along side is fairly well matched with you right?
>> BRIAN: [nodding head]
Yeah, there's a will the of trust there with the guide. Because at the end of the day their job is to make sure you're safe. Especially when you're climbing a mountain there's jagged rocks and trees and a very dangerous place to be running. So there's really a lot of trust in that guide. And even in a street race you can trip over a curb. I got guided into a poll once that was before we got to the race. Trying to shake that off and recover and continue running required a lot of trust in that guide not to make that mistake again.
>> DOUG: Totally, so much of sport is a mental warfare when you're really pushing yourself. Another challenge to put into that, in your case, is to really have this implicit trust in someone. When that is like even by accident broken a little bit, I'm sure when you're running and you're trying to run a good pace and you're really throwing yourself into the race, you want to feel you're well‑supported and you are not about to step into a pothole or run into a poll. So I can see that can be a challenge or extra hurdle to overcome even if that's accidentally violated at some point. That's interesting.
We have a question from one of how viewers. Claire asked do you use haptics? That's useful in running.
>> BRIAN: Can you repeat that please.
>> DOUG: Brian, do you use haptics, especially when you're running?
>> BRIAN: So I don't use haptics when running. My wife and I use Sign Language on some occasions. When after a long day I want to take my hearing aids off we will tactile sign back is and forth. And then we see and during our wedding ceremony we were signing back is and forth between the two of us. I don't think anyone else realized we were communicating the whole time, through the whole ceremony. We knew. And it added to the experience of a web wedding ceremony to be able to communicate back and forth while the ceremony was going on.
My guide and I use often times if it's raining or snowing we use kind of tactile signing not so formal. We use a lot of tactile signals to make sure we are together and we are going in the right direction.
>> DOUG: I love that tactile Sign Language is already a really intimate form of communication obviously any communication that relies on touch is a very intimate form of communication. But to have that intimacy underlined by the fact it's happening at a wedding ceremony between two people about to get married is like ‑‑ there's something really poignant about that to me. It's already so intimate and then to have it happen in such an intimate moment is like a really beautiful, beautiful way to be able to communicate. A lot of times people I feel like are maybe sighted and hearing don't think about other forms of communication, and maybe think of it may be even subconsciously may have a feeling of having it be a lesser form of communication. Something someone has to resort to because they cannot do XY and Z. Sometimes miss the beautiful benefits of it being distinctly it's on own form of communication and the beauty it provides that other forms of communication can't. You highlighted one specific instance where it's beautifully it's own form of communication that you can't simulate in other forms of communication.
>> BRIAN: Yes, it made the ceremony a lot more intimate. We were able to chat back and forth and talk about how we were feeling about each other in this the moment.
It made the ceremony that much better.
>> DOUG: I love that. For the last portion of our conversation, I'd love to move into kind of tying some of the stuff we were talking about with ADA 30. The 30th anniversary of the Americans with Disability Act. The 30th anniversary itself is in 2 days from now, on the 26th. Before we get to that, I want to remind people watching again we have another live stream of The Feeling Through Experience this up coming Monday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern time, 10:00 p.m. Pacific time. Some asked in the chat, if you are already signed up in the mailing list you are good to go and we will send how information. If you have not go to feelingthrough.com/register. We will send you info out through there. I encourage you to partake if you have not before. It's a special unique experience. If you have, you know each one is different and we would love to have you back. Please also spread the word about that. You can share feelingthrough.com/register with people, you can share what we’ve been posting on social media about it. And Brian will be joining us again. And I'm sure you would love to hear from him some more is and hear from him at 1:00 p.m. as well. So Brian, again, you know can you talk to the importance of the ADA and how it's personally served your journey?
>> BRIAN: Definitely, I was born in the same month and year that the ADA was signed into law. The ADA really protected my rights as a person with disabilities to be able to do things. So for instance, when I was in school, nobody could say that wasn't allowed in the classroom with my peers. Obviously academically I would fit to be there. So it allowed me to learn and grow along side my peers. And the ADA protects my ability to work. To have accommodations on the job. As well as my ‑‑ I have a guide dog that I travel around with. And the ADA said my guide dog is allowed to go into any public place that I'm allowed to go. So the two of us we are really thankful for the ADA and all that it's done. George W bush that ultimately signed the ADA into law, he himself actually was the beneficiary of a service dog. And you know he wouldn't have been able to have that service dog if it weren't for the ADA protecting his rights.
>> DOUG: When is your birthday by the way?
>> BRIAN: July 1990.
>> DOUG: What did I in July.
>> BRIAN: July 8th.
>> DOUG: Well happy belated. We are celebrating ADA 30 and we are also celebrating Brian 30.
So it's double 30 celebration there.
[chuckling].
So that's so well put, in having the opportunity to speak with you today and getting to talk through a lot if on your life as someone who again is that four year old just jumping into the pool and you brought that kind of spirit to many aspects of your life. Someone who is obviously an extremely talented person and not afraid to throw yourself into life. You are well suited to be successful in so many environments. But it sounds like the provisions ADA laid out just allowed for a better landscape for you to use all your talents in. Is that a fair way to put it? Had.
>> BRIAN: Definitely, the ADA allowed me to be fully included in school, fully included in work, to be around my peers. And ultimately what that has allowed me to do is live a life that I couldn't imagine pre‑ADA.
Currently, I own my own house. I'm married, I take care of my guide dog. And I have this happy little life that I couldn't imagine without the ADA.
>> DOUG: I love that. That's certainly a great way to be celebrating the 30th anniversary.
So yeah, with the last minute or so, here, I wonder is there anything you would like to say today?
>> BRIAN: Definitely, I'm still currently running and training. And we ‑‑ I am training for a run on Cape Cod coming up in September. I'm hoping to do a mini triathlon sometime soon. I talked to my guides, they are all on board.
So I'm excited for what the future brings.
>> DOUG: Would that be your first triathlon?
>> BRIAN: Yeah, it will be my first triathlon. The most difficult westbound the swimming portion because I can't wear my hearing aid. I'm not 100% sure how that feet will go. But we always find a way. The secret sauce to life I found is figuring out how to make things work for you. One of the things my intervener taught me when I was young, you could do anything, you just have to figure out how to make it work for you.
>> DOUG: Those are perfect are words the wrap up this episode with. I'd say we will have to have you back sooner but I'll have the pleasure of speaking to you Monday. You certainly have to let me know when that triathlon happens I want to talk to you again after that. I'm going to want a full update on how that goes, that sounds really exciting.
Yeah, Brian thank you again so much for joining me today. You're really a awesome guy like all around and so many interesting things to share. I really appreciate you coming on here today.
>> BRIAN: Thank you.
>> DOUG: By extension, thank you to Perkins who you are also representing today for joining us. Certainly thank you as all to Helen Keller Services our partner in this. And to our interpreters and our captioner. Thank you to all of you tuning in. Again, to sound like a broken are record but it's an important part of the record to play again. Tune in Monday, 10:00 am Pacific time and 1:00 pm Eastern time. It's a free event we have over 3,000 people join us on the last live streams from 35+ states and 10+ countries around the world. All of which are extremely enthused. It's so great to have you all join us because the chat box lights up with the questions and things you have. Go to feelingtrhough.com/register. And you can find various things on social media. And share with anyone that might find it valuable. It's free for everyone and we want as many team to join as possible. Thank you every, have a great weekend and see you all on Monday! Bye.
[all waving]