[Doug]: So welcome to episode 19 or Feeling Through Live. I have the distinct pleasure of being joined by Keely Cat-Wells today, who is a disability advocate and entrepreneur, certainly many other things that we will get into. And today, we're going to talk about a lot of things, but we're going to be talking about topics pertaining to the disability space in the entertainment space and the cross section of those, certainly something that's very near and dear to a Feeling through. So I'm really excited to talk about that today. So, you know, Keely, before we hop into things, why don't you give everyone a little intro of yourself?
[Keely]: Sure. I thank you so much. And thank you for having me. So yes, I am Keely and I started off in the industry as a dancer and I was, that's what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. And I wanted to go to college and I got into a great college in the UK. And as I was training, I got sick halfway through my training. So I left and I got misdiagnosed. And then finally through that, and I'm sure many people have the same experience of trying to find the right diagnosis. So I finally got the correct diagnosis and after various operations, I became disabled at the age of 16. So a different experience starting my life as a non-disabled person and then becoming disabled. It was incredible to see how different the world looks when you are disabled. And I got to witness, how is the entertainment industry can be. So from that, I started working at a talent agency. I started representing kids and, you know, really not focusing on any specific, any specific kind of genre. So I then was acting as well at the time. And I went in for a role and I was, I booked it. I did really well. I went in for my fitting and then because of my disability, they said that it was too off-putting to the audience. And they didn't realize because I'm kind of like an undercover agent. I feel like, because I don't necessarily look disabled, I've got an invisible disability, but then, but then they saw the disability and they took back the role. So from that, I really saw the need and I was like, I'm sure this is happening to so many other people. And I should be the one that starts representing people with disabilities and, and really fight to break those stereotypes and, you know, really fight for the access and true equality that we all deserve. So that's kind of what kicked off the journey into this, into this whole new world.
[Doug]: Yeah. Well, thank you for that beautiful introduction. Certainly, you make my job easy because you can, you just kind of beautifully laid all that out. And certainly there's so much to talk about there. But kind of for starters, you know, it might be very obvious to certain people watching, but to others, it might not be. Could you just explain, just simply the difference between a visible and an invisible disability?
[Keely]: Yeah, of course. So, it's when you see someone in a wheelchair, you automatically are like, Oh, okay. So that person is probably disabled. You automatically accept in your head that it's okay for them to have that blue badge and for them to park in the disabled parking spot or for them to use the disabled bathroom. But when you have an invisible disability, it is a lot less obvious and you are more prone to judging someone for using that disabled bathroom or for using that, that space and invisible disability can be anything from, uh, like when I have an idea to me to, chronic illness, to being blind and, you know, it's, it's, although it's such a similar experience in the disability world that can also be very different.
[Doug]: So something also that I love so much about your story and certainly, we're going to get into a lot of everything else, everything that you're doing right now, which is, which is a ton of different things, but I love, not only how personal this is to you, obviously as someone who is part of the disability community directly, but also someone who has from an entertainment standpoint really been on both sides of the coin, so to speak and knowing that, kind of what it was like to start off as a young person in the entertainment industry, who didn't have to think about disability at all to obviously, being on the other side of that, and then really opening your eyes to kind of everything that you saw that was wrong about that. And you started to go into that, but like, can you, you obviously gave that really specific anecdote, which I think beautifully illustrates a lot of the discrimination towards the disability community in entertainment, in the case that you booked a role, and with, with the production not knowing about your disability and then on set finding out about it and saying this isn't going to work. Do you, I guess I'd love to like move into the part of your life where, you know, you, obviously you go from being an actress in that situation, knowing that's not right for you and then moving into the agent, management world. Can we, can you tell us a little bit about how that chapter began and kind of where it's taking you?
[Keely]: Yeah, absolutely. So even being, I was not knowledgeable about the other access needs, the other disabilities that I was surrounded by, I was still very new to the community. And when I started representing disabled artists, I started to see the trends in those stereotypes and in those roles that the clients were getting called in for. And I also saw the barriers that they see every day, nearly every time they got called into an audition, they would have to drag that wheelchair upstairs to just get into the door or they'd be on the set and they have to get changed in your storage room because the trailers are not accessible for them. So it was really seeing the world from such a broad perspective and from so many different disabled people's views. And you really come to the conclusion and you realize and accept that the world was just not made with us in mind. And it was kind of fascinating to see people and productions reaction when you try to educate them and try to give them the tools that they need to create an equal space and to create an accessible space. And it was the easiest of tasks to do.
[Doug]: So I know that, so your first step for you is you were working for an agency, right. And that, and that, that kind of like revealed a lot of what you saw on that end of things, to now being on the agent side of things and revealing kind of a whole another layer of how the industry is not, made for, and does not accommodate, the disability community. Um, so can, can you tell us about your transition from that role into the next chapter of your life?
[Keely]: Yeah, absolutely. So when I was representing talent that were non-disabled, when that wasn't really, in my mind, I saw a trend cause I was working for people at that point and they wanted me to represent people who was younger than I was. And that was the first kind of red light. I was like, oh, because of my age that they wanted me to represent people younger. So there's a stereotype already. And then as stuff happened to me and you kind of build up all, you see all of these stereotypes. So it really is my mission to break kind of intersectional stereotypes as well. Cause I think often when we think of disabled, and we think of disabled in the media, we think of someone who is white with a disability or someone with autism, you automatically think of a middle aged white guy with autism. You don't think of someone who is black, who is in a wheelchair who also has autism. So it's very interesting to, to kind of, you know, think about when you see the roles come through on breakdowns, who could really go to that role, even if it doesn't necessarily specify that they have to have a disability or they have to have, either be a certain way that you can really dive into that character and find all of these different people that could work for that. And from that, and from seeing my clients not have equal chances to get these roles or equal chances to do as well on set as they could have done because of the access and because of the stereotypes that I've faced, I really wanted to create something where it was built with us at the heart of it and something that would hopefully set a standard for employers and have them realize that this is a business opportunity.
[Keely]: They can do it with integrity and take up the opportunity. It's a trillion dollar industry. So I really wanted to create something with us, built at the heart of it that is fully accessible for people with disabilities. And this thing to me, I see this as a film studio. So we are currently looking and we are actively, at the moment we're finding land in the UK to build infrastructure that is fully accessible and that will enable production to open so many more doors. And also for disabled filmmakers behind the screen, which is equally as important, if not more important that we have disability led productions, with people at the helm, you know, the production doesn't necessarily have to be about what someone with a disability, but it is authentically led by someone who has a different voice to what has been going on in the industry. So it will give them the tools that they need, the access that they require and everything to be able to create, create something with true authenticity and, and from a new perspective.
[Doug]: So Keely, there's so much great stuff in there, and I want to walk through a couple chapters of it, but I will say that what Keely's introducing is her amazing, fully accessible, the first fully accessible movie studio that we're certainly going to get into a lot more shortly, but I can say that having seen the pitch deck for it and the designs for it, it's absolutely stunning. In addition to it being this groundbreaking project, which I really want to spend a lot of time talking about, but before we go there, you know, you brought up, there was so many interesting things that stem off of what you were just talking about, but just going back to something, at the beginning of what you were just talking about, you know, in addition to like some of the discrimination really that, that you you've been identifying as far as the entertainment industry and, and the disability community, that's just really one manifestation of it too, because I love in your own personal journey, you've also just experienced like ageism in what you were describing about how you were being treated as an agent there. That just because you were younger, there was like a, a naivete or the inability to kind of like work with adults or things like that. So I just think it's really interesting that, you know, again, it's that it's, it's emblematic of kind of a larger change that needs to happen, which is really just seeing people as people and not, you know, as their age, as their disability, as their race, or what have you. And I think that just in your own personal journey with a couple of things that you've experienced yourself really is emblematic of that.
[Keely]: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I think the media is so powerful and if you paint people certain ways people are gonna believe that. And although I think it is so important to recognize where we come from, recognize our culture and our community and recognize that we are disabled. You know, I don't want you to not see the disability. You don't not see the wheelchair, you know, see it, accept it, you know, understand it and learn how differently we live and how vast and wonderful that culture is. And, but don't fall into those traps that the media has painted for us in the past. You know, when we think of stereotypes in the media, you know, you think of captain hook and the Hunchback of Notradame and the Joker and these characters that do not reflect people with disabilities, yet people seem to see those as what people with disabilities actually are like, who is a very, very interesting concept.
[Doug]: You know, and, and I think, um, I'm curious from your vantage point, just, I'm going to ask you the simple question and kind of, kind of piggybacking off of what you're just saying, but, why is it important to have inclusivity in media and, you know, particularly through the lens of the disability space, which I think is, you know, when we're talking about marginalized communities on screen, statistically speaking, that's really the most marginalized and really the least seen. And when there are roles, when there are characters who are disabled, it's rare that there are disabled actors playing those characters. So why, why is it important to have that representation and to also have that participation, um, from the, from the disability community?
[Keely]: Oh, it's so incredibly important. I have this amazing client called Diana Elizabeth Jordan, and she has a quote. She says that disability is not a technical skill that you can learn. It's a lived in experience. And I think if that doesn't put into perspective to a producer show runner that, you know, that it's, that you can't have an able-bodied, non-disabled person playing a disabled role, then I don't know what it's, you know, it truly is a lived in experience and it's not right that people get awards for playing disabled characters. And I think that also stems back to when you're watching a movie and a disabled character gets a trophy for going to school or gets an award for getting out of bed. It's not awarding their achievements. It's not treating them as an individual. It's treating them as their disability. And that is also I think, what that stems from. And you kind of get this crossover of discrimination and stereotyping. And I think the more authentically that these roles can be played and the more disabled actors have the chance to input their lives into these roles, the true, or that will be on the true are these stories will be.
[Doug]: And it's, you know, it's interesting that you bring up the, you know, the example of the disability community often, uh, this trope of, of a disabled character only being there to inspire others like that, that would be their sole function. And that there'd be nothing else to, to what is actually a multidimensional person other than to just be there to inspire others. It's and it's interesting just on your point of like, why it's so important for that inclusivity and representation. I imagine that a lot of times I'm curious what your thoughts are on this, but a lot of times someone might fall into that, that trap or that trope of, of seeing someone who's disabled as only there to inspire from a lack of knowledge of the diverse capabilities of people in every facet of the disability community and these kinds of erroneous assumptions, coming in with these erroneous assumptions, like, well, of course, someone who's thus in such couldn't do this thing or that thing. And then just in seeing that being like, wow, that's amazing. And again, having, making those erroneous assumptions because of not knowing anyone who's disabled, not seeing accurate representation of anyone who's disabled. So even if you personally, maybe don't know anyone in your personal circle who's disabled, or has a specific disability that you don't know much about, if you see that represented accurately in media, you at least start to create some sort of better informed understanding of who someone like that is and their capabilities and the diversity of, of that rather than making these completely unsubstantiated and erroneous assumptions that lead to like, you know, someone being inspired by someone who was disabled, just like you said, getting out and getting out of bed.
[Keely]: Yeah. We must familiarize audiences with the true essence of people with disabilities. And that story is, and that they are more than just here to inspire a world of people that, you know, the world was not made for us so they can celebrate the tiny things that it's. So, um, it's just not true. I think a way that we conquer that is that you have people with disabilities in your writer's room. You have people with disabilities as your producer, you have someone with a disability as your show runner, you hire CEOs who are disabled. It starts at the top, it starts at the bottom it's, you have people with disabilities in all of these roles, not just, oh, we're going to tick a box and we're going to have someone with a disability in our film so we can get press on that person. And it makes us look like we're good people, it's the wrong way to think about it. And it really has to start from, from hiring people with disabilities to play a role in every essence of your production, of your admin, of, you know, agencies, managers, casting, directors, to really have true authenticity. And also have, I think I said it earlier to have intersectional representation. So you have the LGBTQ community that you are disabled. You have the black communities disable, you have black disabled writers, black disabled producers. And then only then I think, can we truly start to have real authenticity and a truly diverse role in the media?
[Doug]: Yeah. That's, that's really beautifully put, and like, you know, again, you're saying it, it goes beyond just like having one character in one show who's disabled. That's not certainly not enough. And certainly that moved toward the creation element of it. The people, like you said, that people in the writers room, the people behind the camera, that that's certainly something that, where there hasn't been much headway made there yet. And that's definitely the next step in the evolution of, of really bettering practices in the entertainment industry around this. And you know, somebody else you touched on there and, and Hillary writes on Facebook, she says, ableism is such an important conversation. And you know, I was reminded of something that when we connected earlier, Keeley, you had mentioned in some, I forgot the exact context of our conversation when you mentioned that you can still be ableist when you're disabled. And obviously this is, this is an ongoing learning process for you as someone who is really taking on a project, which again, I promise we'll talk about in great detail in your, in your fully accessible studio, that in order to be fully accessible, you really need to have a mastery of understanding of every element of accessibility. But can you talk a little bit about just really quickly what ableism is for someone who's maybe coming to that term for the first time and just that topic of how you can be ablest and disabled?
[Keely]: Yeah, absolutely. So it is the discrimination towards someone's disability. Um, and I think there's active ableism and there's casual ableism. And then there's just passive ableism from a lack of knowledge. And I've found because I came into the disability community in the beginning when I was 16, and I have not had any, um, interactions with the community before I've found myself being ableist, because just a lack of knowledge, a lack of awareness. And I had no idea about the different types of access. I think when people think of access, they think, oh, access, okay, we just need a ramp. There are so many different forms of access and there are so many different, different disabilities, and it's difficult to be knowledgeable on every single disability, but just being open, listening, learning, educating ourselves, and really understanding and accepting the person and their needs and their requirements and their views. This is something they live in, we live in every day. And if you say that you don't believe us, or if you say that, um, you know, what we're saying is not what they're going to do or it's, it makes it very difficult for the disabled community to actually have a voice. And I think that's what ableism is. It's making the disabled community that feel like a burden or just not listening to us at all and not accepting that we are equal, that our voices are just as valid as your voices and that our culture matters just as much as yours. And we are different. We adapt, we have learned to adapt in many, many different ways. Um, so yeah I got a bit off subject, but yeah, ableism, I think it's just the discrimination of people with disabilities.
[Doug]: Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting because, you know, certainly I, and what you were just talking about, I think of, you know, the recent 30th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act and a lot of the discussion we had during that time around advocacy. Um, and I think, you know, a large part of advocacy and the power behind advocacy is I connect that to, to media representation. You know, we look at, you know, our last election and moving into a, you know, an election upcoming. And we obviously are very clear how powerful, you know, the media and social media and all forms of media are in, in really driving these big decisions and, and things that lead to law that lead to, you know, creating the environment that we have. And a lot of that, really the power of that is usually in media representation. So just in what you were saying, it's like another connection to like, well, why is this important? Well, when you have a community that is still needing to advocate for basic rights and access in a lot of elements of a world, and that voice that, those needs and that voice needs to be amplified through all different forms of media, whether it's obviously just representation, being able to see people from that community in a much more nuanced and multidimensional way, or having a platform, in the news, in, in all different spaces to be able to directly address these issues.
[Keely]: Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting you bring up local and, you know, the ADA is such an amazing feat. It's incredible what it stands for our community. And I couldn't imagine the world without it. I couldn't imagine my personal world without it. Um, but there's still so much work to be done. It was, I think a couple of days ago I am not proficient in law or I don't even try to be, there's no point in going into that world, but I did see and read something about, um, it's called 14C and it basically allows people with disabilities to be paid a dollar or less per hour, so much under minimum wage. And that law is still in place that was put in place in the 19, in 1938. Um, and it was never abolished. It's still, it's still an active policy and companies take advantage of that and they get people with disabilities to work for such small pay, and whether they do that, so people with disabilities can keep that, um, keep that benefits, which is a whole other subject, but it's another subject that I think the media should touch on, or they should be, um, it should be information about that. There should be a stories about that because it's something that needs to, needs to stop. I think, yeah, it's, it's crazy. It's pretty crazy. Um, yeah.
[Doug]: I want to, I want to touch on something in that, but first I'm going to just take a quick pause for an interpreter switch. And okay, Jamie, all good to go? Great. So continuing here and again, thank you to everyone who stuck with us. I know today the internet is a little wonky, and I've heard from all, I've seen in the comments that the audio is clean. So hopefully you're just able to treat this as a, more of a podcast today. Um, we'll be able to upload a cleaner version later, but thank you for sticking with us here. And again, if you have any questions for the second half of this conversation, please feel free to type them in chatbox. We'd love to hear from you and any other comments you might have. But continuing this, you know, um, I was actually just having, you know, on, that, that law that you set up and how it's leading to the disability community being underpaid.
[Doug]: I had an interesting conversation with, uh, with a disability advocate yesterday, about how, who's working on a lot of projects that are require a good amount of resources to make them fully accessible. And it's interesting that, you know, as things stand right now, and again, all more for the need for advocacy around this, is that it's a community that is underpaid and, and very underemployed, uh, relative to, to other communities. And, is also a community where a lot of accessibility right now, it's still very costly. So there's this real irony in, in a community that like really gets the short end of the stick financially in a lot of different realms and also has lives where things are constructed in a way where accessibility tends to be so expensive, whether that's someone's personal accessibility needs or accessibility out in the world. And we're really talking about that, that irony. Um, but you know what, I'd love to use that as a, as a turning point in this conversation to talk about the future. You know, we've talked, we've certainly identified some, some issues in the present and the past, but what I'm really excited to talk about in the second part of this conversation is the very bright future ahead that certainly you are helping pioneer. Um, so we mentioned Zetta Studios before, but I want you to kind of give us another kind of introduction into that, and don't be shy here because I know this is your, your project. And sometimes we can be a little modest about it, but I will say as a complete outsider to this and someone who came to this recently, something that, well, we won't be able to show you the drawings and the renderings of this facility, but I just to fill in that dimension before Keely tells you more about it, it is an absolutely stunning facility that Keely and her and her team are working on constructing. And it is just, I mean, just think of basically the coolest arts facilities you've seen and, and any communities around that. And it's, it's just kind of the best version and amalgamation, you know, of kind of the, the coolest, you know, modern theaters and, and public spaces, kind of all in one. So Keely, I'm doing a really bad job of describing it. I'm just so enthusiastic about what it is. Why don't you do a better job and tell everyone a little bit more about it.
[Keely]: Oh, thank you so much. Um, so, you know, we are in the early stages of creating the world's first, fully accessible, film and TV studio. And I would like to say it has been compared to before as the Silicon Valley of entertainment. What I really want to do is create the most incredible structure that will house the most revolutionary technology, as well as the most innovative productions and high-end productions. It will be for everyone, but it's really made with us at the heart of it, which has not been done before. Um, it will include access. It will include physical access, sensory access, communication, access, cognitive access, every access ideal that you can think of. We are working towards, you know, centering it around that to make it incredibly accessible, you know, and specialized filming equipment and everything that you can think of to make a production as accessible as it could ever be. Um, and it's interesting. I had someone say, you know, but it's not built yet. Why are you talking about it? I'm talking about it because even the idea, if someone says that is a really good idea, I want to do that. Please do it. I want people to do this, build infrastructure, build buildings and studios, and build buildings with accessible and universal design in mind. You know, if you do this idea and you managed to get it built before me, fine, I'm happy with that. Um, but we are at a very exciting stage, and I cannot wait to, to cut the ribbon, and be able to open this facility and really open up some opportunities and, and be able to have a new system and hopefully create and set a standard for employers and, you know, not just able to offer the most basic needs, but really offer ideals and go beyond compliance.
[Doug]: And there's again so much in there and I want to touch on that last part, certainly, but before we do that, I'd love to, like, you'd kind of introduced this a little bit, but I'd love to go a little bit more into what this was born out of because you just, you just acknowledged, like it's not made yet. And it's a big idea, but I'd love for you to just articulate a little bit more about, like, why take on something like this? Like what, what you, you're obviously already doing great work in someone who is a real advocate for the community and someone who's a manager who represents actors with disabilities and fighting to get a lot of people in the entertainment industry who are disabled more opportunities. Why, why this studio?
[Keely]: Yeah, you know, this is always, to have my own film and TV studio was always a dream. I thought maybe this is my five year goal. Maybe it's my 10 year goal, but the more and more I came across barriers for me and for people with disabilities in the entertainment industry and in the world on a whole, I was like, why not just do it now? Let's just do it. Let's create it. You know, I don't, what gives me the right? What gives me the, what gives me the, you know, the history, the education, how, why me, why should I create this? And how can I? I believe if you put your mind to something and you have the access, then you can do it. And I think this is such, this is my lifelong mission for sure is create this fully accessible film studio that will put a dent in the world.
[Keely]: I hope. And I really started this because the barriers that I saw with things that can be so easily overcome. The adaptations that can be made are so simple. And I also got very frustrated that disability kept being looked at as a charity, a charitable cause. My disability, I should work for free, or, um, I should only be a nonprofit. I shouldn't be for profit. So I wanted to create something that would be this project that would be for profit in every way that will give back to communities, obviously, but it will be with disabilities at the heart of it to really break the stigma that disability could only be seen as a charitable organization, because we are profitable. We want to create businesses. We want to be, um, you know, we, there's a whole array of talent, which does not just need to be there. As someone that can be an inspiration or as something that can be a charity to donate to. So that really, that really kicked it off as well. And just, you know, if, if you can get your star on set a vegan, gluten free, sugar free dairy free donut, then why can't we have the access that we have, you know? So that was a big mix of reasons why I wanted to create such a big, such a big structure and organization. And I was just saying, I'm just going to do it. You know, I'm just going to do it and I'm going to make it happen. Um, so I've been very lucky. I'm working with some incredible people and I think you don't have to be good at everything. You know, I'm dyslexic as well. I can't spell, terrible at reading, but you can put yourself with a community of people and pull together the right talent to really build something and do what you want to do. So that's kind of, what's, what's creating this structure.
[Doug]: I will point out that clearly you have been in Hollywood for awhile, if you're able to rattle off a specialty order like you did with the vegan, gluten free, keto, what have you order. So clearly, clearly you've been around the block, in Hollywood. But you know, it's like, I love everything you just said about that and something that I, you know, when you first told me about it, what I loved, you said that you needed to do something so big that no one could ignore it.
[Keely]: Exactly.
[Doug]: I love that. What I love about that so much is that, you know, in the context of the conversation we were having earlier, where, you know, particularly the disability community at large is fighting for just, in a lot of ways, really basic needs and a lot, and a lot of things of basic accommodations. Um, and, and having just really just having even some representation in some cases, if you, even before we talk about equitable. But to, to like kind of hop a few steps forward and not be kind of asking for breadcrumbs, so to speak, but really be kind of taking the whole like cake on here with something like this. I love just in and of itself creating something this big and this special for the community really creates its own kind of spotlight on it. Its own attention in a much needed way in a community that doesn't often have big notable, and, and really kind of like pioneering projects like this.
[Keely]: Yeah. I certainly think there has been some amazing things that have come out and they have inspired me so much, like the Media Access Awards and Respectability and then what you're doing and, you know, and there's been incredible things. And I think seeing the power that they have had, if we can have a home where all of these organizations can also have an office and come together and unite what an amazing thing that would be to be able to create that. And I think as a community, we do have such a strong sense of, you know, being able to unite and create things together and to be able to bring the non-disabled community into that, that surely that's going to unite so many people. And I think it will spark many different projects. I think it will inspire people to create things that they haven't thought about creating before and because they will have the access to do it. And because it will have been made so simple for them, they don't have to put in any other thought, all the accesses already there laid out for them, made easy. They have no excuse not to include us. So I really believe that, and I believe that this community can do so many things.
[Doug]: You know, you'd mentioned this before and it's something that comes up a lot, you know, on Feeling Through Live. When we're talking to people about accessibility and, you know, often as far as what that looks like out in the physical world, I often hear, you know, accessibility is more than wheelchair access. So there's certain accessibility. Sometimes I'd say there's a big cross section of what I'm about to say and visible disabilities, like someone in a wheelchair that people who aren't that familiar with the disability space might be aware of in the public, like again, like a ramp for wheelchair access, what are some of the accessibility accommodations, and I'd love for you to go into more detail about this for people who maybe have never come across this, what are some of the accessibility considerations that your studio is going to have that some people might not have thought about before or be familiar with?
[Keely]: Yeah, so, you know, things like tactile markings, things like, um, even the writing on things. So comic sans is one of the most easiest, fonts for people with dyslexia or in the neuro-diverse community to read. So, you know, writing would be in that we will have accessible trailers because that is one of the stories that really does stick in my head when we had a client getting changed in a storage room and we will have a warehouse full of costumes that are made for people with disabilities. I think the access to, um, to costumes and to clothing for people with disabilities is another whole arena of problematic things in this world. Like I found out that there are more clothing stores for dogs then there are specifically for people with disabilities. So, you know, again, it's, that type of that type of access, will be, will be crucial.
[Doug]: You know, you know, I love pointing these things out. I certainly learn something new, every one of these episodes. And I didn't know about comic sans and, and it being a very friendly font in that way. So that's something that I can certainly take away from what you just said, but I think it's, it's, you know, in identifying some of those things, that there are a lot of things that people don't think about very often, certainly, you know, something that was really new to me. The last part of that topic you were talking about, about costumes for people with disabilities. I saw, I don't remember where I saw, but I think it was on Facebook, an article posted about a company that was making Halloween costumes for people with disabilities. And it might be something that fits over a wheelchair as one example or something that can be as simple as again, you know, a costume that accommodates someone that's something that can be easily forgotten about, when, when someone's not really thinking of all the different categories of, of how the world isn't set up for accessibility.
[Doug]: So I really love like hearing the details about what, what this, what your studio is going to be and how it's going to address those things. Cause I think there's a lot to learn for everyone, in listening about some of these things that we don't often hear about, or so I really love like hearing the details about what, what this, what your studio is going to be and how it's going to address those things that we don’t often hear about accessibility.
[Keely]: Yeah, yeah, and there's still so much for me to learn. You know, I know the key things I want in there such as the sensory access, the communication access, the cogniitive, all of those different access points. But it is going to be so important at these early stages while we're in this design stage to bring on as many people with as many different disabilities as possible to give us their feedback and tell us what would make their experience on set or in a studio be the best it can be. Because there's not that type of information you can find online, there's not the type of information our architects will know because it's so individual. And it's so specific to each person. And yeah, just so individual. So it's definitely a learning curve for me as well. I want to bring this up before I forget.
[Doug]: I want to bring this up before I forget. Um, but I guess what, what stage are you at right now? And if there's. If there's people watching and coming to this who are like interested in, is there a way that people can like help this become a reality?
[Keely]: At the moment we're kind of in a waiting stage. So we're just waiting to hear back from a certain place in the UK to hear if that's going to be our location or not. So right now it's very much just, I hate waiting, I hate not doing anything but it is very much a waiting stage. So not much at the moment just continuing to support and if you do have any very specific individual accessibility needs that we may not have thought about let us know because we really are in that key design phase as well so implementing as many of those as possible is crucial.
[Doug]: To flash forward here to when, when this is constructed and you've just cut the ribbon on this. I want you to just like step inside this near future scenario here for a moment. I guess the first part of this question is what are you hoping that various people from the disability community who, who move through this space for the first time to and experience it? What are, what are you kind of like hoping is, is, um, their reaction or, or feelings around it?
[Keely]: I'm really hoping that, um, mainstream productions and large corporations and large companies hire a dramatic amount of people with disabilities more than they've ever hired before. And I'm hoping that people with disabilities also, come and film here and create their own projects. And it enables them to do things in a more effective and, you know, faster and a more, in a much easier way than it has been before. And they don't have to budget for things that should have already be provided, but it's not provided. Um, but we will provide them so they can just get on with what it takes for them to really do the best job that they can possibly do. Um, and I think that goes back to when my talent that I represent have to go into an audition, but they've already spent so much of their energy just trying to get through the door that they can't do an equal as good auditioned as anyone else, because they've already wasted so much energy just trying to get every the door. So that definitely stems back to that.
[Doug]: And, and the other side of that, I'm curious, like obviously in, in the, in the description of the studio, and obviously it's the key thing that you did harp on when describing it is that it's the first fully accessible movie studio, but what are you hoping for, and obviously it's beyond a studio because there's a whole community around it, that you, you started to go into, but, you know, again, to kind of paint the picture for people, imagine just, a really just stunning studio space with a stunning, huge open courtyard area that people can spend time in, in front of a beautiful stage, a live stage for live performances, and then a whole, really a whole community around that with various shops and, and a lot of public space for people to really, um, not just enjoy whatever the studio is making, but for the general public to be able to enjoy that space. So I guess I'm, in that part of the, on that part of the topic there, what are you hoping for, for people who aren't part of the disability community, but are coming to this space for the first time? What are you hoping for that, that their experience will be?
[Keely]: I'm hoping that they see that what the disability community brings and having that access, how much that can elevate a project. And I'm hoping that they also see and realize that like, oh, that's such a simple adaptation. I should do that. And when I'm not at the studio, when I'm somewhere else or, um, and they, I'm also hoping that it shows them that having disabled people working in higher positions, I hope that shows them that we, the stereotypes that have been painted in the media that are used to seeing I used to being around is very different to real life. And I'm hoping it inspires them and it enables them to think of new stories and, you know, just gives them a new, a new perspective on the disability community. But they will also have, you know, more idyllic, um, filming facilities as well. It was still being, you know, amazing to, it would just be amazing to have that interconnected community, um, and a true crossover of non-disabled artists and disabled artists all coming together to create something beautiful.
[Doug]: Yeah. I love, I love that aspect of it so much cause certainly, you know, something that's been integral to, to Feeling Through, Feeling Through Live, The Feeling Through Experience, and particularly when we were doing it in person, The Feeling Through Experience before COVID was really creating this space that wasn't just fully accessible for, for moviegoers of any level of vision and or hearing loss to participate in it as well, and be fully accommodating that way, but also for it to be a space that brought together communities that might not normally have a shared experience together and that beyond having a shared experience together, like sitting side by side, connecting directly with each other, shaking each other's hands, giving each other hugs, really creates that immediate visceral connection that really, I think is the thing that changes people in a deeper set way and in a visceral way. And, and, um, that's, I love that so much about what you're creating here is not only does that do that in media and entertainment, but it also creates a public space in a public community to bring diverse groups of people together that might not normally have a space to come together in that way.
[Keely]: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it really drills in that, you know, people with disabilities, they don't need special treatment. We don't need special treatment. We don't need to be treated differently. We just want equal and true quality. And what that really is and what that really looks like.
[Doug]: Well, I, I think an important question is, when this is finished and open, are you gonna invite me? And can I come?
[Keely]: Of course, very welcome.
[Doug]: Good, excuse, I haven't, I mean, we're all, I think a lot of people are itching to travel again. I'll certainly, would love a good reason to go over to the UK. I've been confined to Los Angeles for quite a while now. I wouldn't mind venturing somewhere else when that is deemed a appropriate time to do so.
[Keely]: Yes, absolutely.
[Doug]: I'm wondering, as I'm speaking to the talent manager side, you, and you know, obviously as a talent manager who represents actors with disabilities, you know, something that's obviously near and dear to the Feeling Through community is at the center of that, in a lot of ways is the deafblind community. And obviously Feeling Through was the first film that starred a deafblind actor, and certainly since we've made that film and obviously have plans to do more work and make a feature film version of it as well, you know, we've been asked over time, you know, by people in the deafblind community of like, oh you know, is it something that I can be in? Or like, if I'm interested in acting like, what do I do? I'm like, I'd love to throw that question to you. If like, if there's someone, a person who is deafblind who maybe sees Feeling Through and sees that there's a deafblind actor, and is like, I want to do that too. Like what, what would you suggest they should do?
[Keely]: Yeah, absolutely. So you can always email us with any information that you have and if you've done acting before, send us through your resume and your show reel, but if you haven't, then we are very open to helping people get to the point where representation is right for them. And I also want to make people aware that often people with disabilities question that if coming to us is going to be the right thing for them because they don't want to get stereotyped and they don't want to just be asked to play disabled roles. But I want them to know that our company focuses on placing people with disabilities in roles that does not specify they need a disability. We are wanting to break stereotypes. And that is our true mission and our true goal. And everyone who works at C Talent either as from, if there is a minority or has a disability and feels the exact same, same ways, it's all authentically driven. So yeah, if anyone is wanting to go and pursue that career, then we are open to developing that with them.
[Doug]: And certainly, you know, back to what you were saying a little while ago, but, you know, we're, you know, something that's something that we're on our side investigating as something that we're going to get into in the future or help, but really there needs to be a lot more of as an infrastructure to help, to, to really support actors with disabilities and to have more opportunities in front of, and behind the camera. Um, certainly they're not as it stands right now that many acting classes that someone who's deafblind can just walk into and have the accommodations they might need around it. And, um, certainly that's something that we hope to be able to address in the not too distant future. And hopefully there, there are a lot more people who are taking that, those kinds of considerations in as well. Um, but before we close things out here with just some final thoughts, I'm just curious of how this pandemic, and I know this is like kind of a big question to throw to you for like a final question, so feel free to, you know, not need to go into every detail about it, cause I know it's affected every aspect of your life, but how, how has this pandemic affected, you know, the work that you're doing or, or kind of your outlook on the world?
[Keely]: Yeah, it's definitely given me the confidence the time and the boost that I've needed to really kind of kick things off for the studio, but it's also made me see the world as a world that is, it's not people with disabilities who are disabled. It's the world that is disabled around us, that stops people with disabilities, really doing what, you know, what they can do and what we want to do. Um, and I think COVID has also opened a lot of people's minds into the type of life a lot of people disabilities live. Um, and I think in the entertainment industry, there's still a lot of things that we've got to work towards. And since the virus, a lot of people have thought that people with disabilities should not go back to work and should not be on set at the moment. And we've got to break that stereotype too, because that's not true. Um, you know, we can get back to work. A lot of us can, a lot of us are at risk, but a lot of us can get back to work. And, um, and also that corporate companies, I think they've realized how easy it is to adapt, to having people work from home, say people with disabilities who prefer to work from home now they can. So it's the perfect time for these large companies to open the doors for people with disabilities to work at companies. Um, so I definitely would say that as a, as a closing message.
[Doug]: Well, that's a beautiful closing message. And thank you so much for joining us today. We certainly would love to have you back, uh, with certainly updates about the studio. Um, and certainly plenty of other things to talk about, but wishing you the best of luck with that venture. I'm certain it's only a matter of time. I hope it's sooner rather than later. Um, but really, really admire what it is you're doing, certainly inspired by the enormity of what you're taking on and, and accomplishing. Um, and yeah, looking forward to the, to the bright future, you're going to help create through your endeavors.
[Keely]: Thank you. And same to you. Um, so much respect and just admiration for you're doing really appreciate it.
[Doug]: Thank you. And thank you to all of us who joined us today. We know this, wasn't the cleanest livestream we've done visually. I hope the audio worked for you. We're going to upload a cleaner version in a little bit, so you can come back to it if you'd like, but, uh, we'll be back next week as always with another episode of Feeling Through Live same time, same place, and until then have a great weekend, uh, see them. Bye everyone.