[Doug]: Welcome everybody to episode 20 of Feeling Through Live. I'm joined here today by Commissioner D'Arcangelo of the Massachusetts Commission for the Blind and something that's really exciting about today's episode is that not only are we celebrating our 20th episode, which is pretty exciting, but, today is the very day that is the two year anniversary of Commissioner, D'Arcangelo being commissioner of Massachusetts, Commission for the Blind. So really happy to celebrate that with you today, Commissioner.
[David]: Yes. Thank you, Doug. I appreciate that. And thank you everyone for joining. It's great to be here. It's David D'Arcangelo, Commissioner of Mass Commission for the Blind and Doug, before you begin, let me just thank you for the work you're doing in our community, in the blindness community. And particularly for people with deafblindness, Feeling Through the movie is, it's a powerful movie. It's terrific and it's, I'm celebrating it. And I think everybody here, uh, if you're coming here, you've probably seen the movie and are impressed with the movie, just like I was. So thank you. Thank you for what you're doing to build a community here.
[Doug]: Well, thank you Commissioner. I really appreciate that specifically coming from you. That means a whole great deal. So thank you for that. And for those of you who have joined us for past Feeling Through Experiences, you also might, you might recognize the Commissioner from our Woods Hole screening that we did a couple of, few weeks ago in a very spirited and great conversation that we had in that panel discussion there. So, you know, ever since then, I've been eager to have you on Feeling Through Live. So I'm glad we finally worked that out and, you know, today we're going to be talking about a bunch of different things, you know, but something that, something that really struck me when we, when we got to connect was, you had mentioned that kind of a personal life motto of yours is that "the path to prosperity is paved with perseverance." And certainly that in and of itself is something that really rings in the ear and really evokes a whole lot of thoughts and feelings around that. But I'd love for you in your own words to really tell us what that means to you and why that is something that really is like a driving force in your life on a day to day basis.
[David]: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for recognizing that. I truly do value that and I've used it personally for a number of years and it was during the threshold commencement speech I gave. Threshold as a program within Lesley University and what they do is they provide people with disabilities within a post secondary school college experience. So it's people who normally would not be going to college, but they get an opportunity to go to college at Lesley University at this program, the threshold program, and it's for people with disabilities. And it tends to be people with intellectual and developmental disabilities, but it's people of all disabilities and abilities that I don't even like to say disabilities. I'd just like to say varying levels of ability. And so anyways, I, they had asked me to give the commencement address for their graduating group. And so it was the first time I used it was during that commencement address. And I felt, many parents came up to me afterwards and some of the students and graduates came up to me afterwards and said, you know, that really resonated with me. I think he should, you should try to get that message out more. So I've been trying to do that. And I really believe that prosperity is something that everybody seeks. And although we have challenges in America right now with politically and socially and, the COVID and financial and so many different challenges we're facing right now, there's still tremendous opportunity. And really, I think everybody's trying to pursue their own American dream, or at least that's one of the things we try to get them to think of are our consumers at Massachusetts Commission for the Blind is to pursue that and really independence and self determination. Those are, those are important goals for everybody. And I think even more so for people with blindness or deafness or other, again, other types of disabilities, so prosperity is that, is that end goal. But sometimes it's, it's hard to see when you're in a certain area of challenge. So I really believe that it is a path and it's a journey and all of these things we do along that path pave the way for us. So again, the path to prosperity is paved by perseverance. You gotta hang in there. If it was easy, everybody would do it. And it would, you know, it would be simply done. You really have to go through adversity so many times, and it's easy to say and much tougher to do. And I know that from my own experiences, being legally blind and, you know, having parts of my life where I couldn't see at all, so persevere hang in there, things will get better and you, you too will get prosperity.
[Doug]: And I want to get a little bit more to your personal life in a moment, but just again, on that, on that motto, what, you know, what you just explained so well that I love about it is first and foremost, I love that it really embraces, it embraces challenge in that it is through those challenges and, challenges and obstacles, that are really part of the equation that, that actually leads to prosperity. You can't have prosperity without that. It's almost something that, that is very much a part of, of thriving and being prosperous is heading straight into and really dealing with and almost embracing those challenges is what I kind of get from what you're saying. And the other thing that I think is so important, and I know this is certainly something that you can not only speak to, but I think your personal journey is really emblematic of is, a lot of times I've found as someone who certainly bridges two worlds of someone who very much knows what it's like not too, too long ago, to know very little about, the disability, any disability communities, but particularly deafblind, and low vision and blind to being someone who's obviously worked very daily in that space now for the last few years and something that I know that is often surprising, I think to people that know very little is they sometimes think of certain disability communities as like, well, I hope they can like, just get by, or I hope they can like, just get what they need to like live. And what I love about what you're saying is you're talking about prosperity. You're talking about, you know, those higher needs beyond the basic ones of survival, of really thriving, of really living a fruitful life that, that really is expansive. And I know that your personal journey is really emblematic of that as well, but that those are the two things that I really get from, from your personal motto there.
[David]: Well, thank you. I really put thought into it and tried to capture that. So I'm honored that you would recognize that back to your first point a little bit. So there's an old song. I don't know if you've heard the singer Wilson Pickett, he's got a great tune. It's called "Don't Let That Green Grass Fool You." Right. And everybody wants to, in this age of social media and people are posting the best pics of them in the perfect situation. And then they're photoshopping and making everything look perfect. Nothing's perfect. The reality is nothing is perfect, right? So, so to be aspirational is the way you want to go, right? It's always, what can I do to improve my situation? What can I do to make things better for myself? And then if I can make things better for myself, I can then go to the point where I'm helping others, helping society, lending my talents to society, to make things better. And one of the things that drives me is nearly two thirds of all working age people with disabilities are not in the labor force. Think of that. People with disabilities, by the way, have the largest minority group somewhere between 12 and 20% of our entire population are people with disabilities. And two thirds of all working age, people with disabilities are not even in the labor force, forget about unemployment. If you're unemployed, at least you're in the labor force. 63% are not even in the labor force. That means they're, they're all set. I don't even want to work. And so that to me, that keeps me up at night and that really drives me because I really believed that working and having an occupation is noble on so many levels. It's, it's important for the person to feel dignity and self determination and be able to provide for themselves and independence and all of the things associated with work, but really the very identity of who you are. I would ask anybody who's listening in today, go to the supermarket and strike up a conversation with somebody or the library or wherever you happen to see somebody. And variablely if you ask them, oh, so what do you do? Nine times out of 10, the person will answer with what their occupation is. And if you don't have an occupation, or if you don't even want to be in the labor force, what are you identifying as? And so everybody has talent. What can we do to get at everybody's talent to leverage that for themselves and for society? So that again is part of the path to prosperity is paid by perseverance because you're prosperous when you are gainfully employed and earning your own money and able to save up for a vacation or, or, a new house or an iPad or whatever it is you you choose to do. Right. So, so that's a little part of it. And then to your second part, again, it's a journey and it's a path. And what we do every day at the Massachusetts Commission for the Blind is really try to on a case by case basis, find out what success is going to look and prosperity is going to look like for every person individually, because what may work well for one consumer or one of our, we call it clients, we call them consumers. What works well for one of our consumers may not necessarily work well for another consumer. And we have 26,000 consumers registered with us. And all that means is that we have 26,000 individual outlooks with 26,000 separate sets of vision. And so everybody's unique and everybody's different. And I think we need to, we remember that and we try to leverage the institutional knowledge. We have to, again, lead to that path to prosperity.
[Doug]: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, to something that you were, you were just talking about, you know, I really actually, you know, before we kind of, I'd love to go actually a little bit into your personal story, but before we kinda go off on other topics, because I don't want to miss that because I know it's also kind of the birthing place for that personal motto. So like, if you will, could you take it, can you walk us through kind of the, I guess you could say the origin stories of that being your, your personal life and growing up and where that kind of like originates from.
[David]: Sure. Yeah. I'll give you the, I'll give you the cliff notes version or am I dating you myself? I'll give you the Wikipedia version. So I was, I was born legally blind and the reason why they were able to know that I had legal blindness or a good chance of having it was my brother has legal blindness, same disease that I have. I have what's called juvenile X-linked retinoschisis wet. Long way to say that basically the macular of my retina, I was kind of born with like the, the macular is of like a 90 year old person. Like they really deteriorated there. There's not much there. So some of my earliest memories are going to the doctor and the doctor trying to persuade my parents, look, you should sign him up for services. You should get them into special school, teach him braille, like the whole thing. And my parents always trying to like encourage me to do that. And I was always very resistant because I didn't want to be treated differently and things like that. And so all along the way, I would periodically go back into the doctor and some of the best eye doctors in the world are here in Boston, at Mass Eye and Ear. And again, they would try to convince me and I would take some of the advice and I would, I would get some counseling from MCB and, and from my school and other places. But you know, still, always somewhat resistant to the point where then I was about 17, 18 years old. I went in and saw the new doctor that came in and he said, dad, if it hasn't happened by now, don't worry. It's not going to happen. Go out and live life to the fullest. So I took him at his word and I went out and really did live life to the fullest and started doing all kinds of activities that maybe I was hesitant to do before, like surfing and you know, riding my bike really fast and, and doing things that I probably shouldn't have been doing until one point I went out and I went skiing and I crashed and I detached my retina and went completely blind. And so as I was lying in the bed with no vision at all saying, well, what am I going to do now? Like, this is, this is terrible. This is bad. Like, what am I going to do? I can't see, like in it's really the type of suffering there is very serious and it's, it's almost hopeless. And so I was blessed to be able to receive some very innovative surgeries at the time, usually to do one of the surgeries would have been a big deal. They taught four of the surgeries together and did them all at once Sunday and basically pasted me back together. You know, I grew up my whole life, actually, this my right eye was my better eye, but I left. I wasn't. So they actually reattached my retina from my left eye. So now instead of seeing things out of my right, I was seeing things out of my left eye and I never had glasses before, but optics had advanced to the point where now I could be fitted with glasses, but now if I take off my glasses, I can't even see the camera or the screen or the light. So when I put my glasses on I'm right on that 20/200 determination level, so I'm not, a tweener, you know, the, the legally blind, I've just enough vision to be legally blind, but still appreciate being able to see. And I, and I have constant blood in my eye floaters, that's the wet portion of my disease. So, uh, oftentimes depending upon the day or the barometric pressure, I have different amounts of blood in my eye that can be difficult to see through. So sometimes I wear sunglasses just because of the sensitivity and light and things like that. Anyway, it's the reason why I go to that detail is to let you know that many people, like some of them even fully blind people. I remember them calling me like illegally blind, like, oh, you can see. And yes, I can't see. And I'm blessed to be able to see, but the challenges are real. I can't drive. And so that really provides a prerogative to me because I've known various sets of vision throughout my life and continue to know various sets of vision. So I really bring that to bear for our consumers, because as many consumers that are fully blind that are on our register, which is actually somewhat uncommon, only about 2 to 3000 of the people on our central register are completely 100% blind. There's this message. Any that are like me, that have, they're right on that 20/200 determination where they can see out of one eye or they can see colors, or they can, they have a limited field division or something like that. So it's actually a good teaching point to be able to let people know that not all people with blindness have the cane or the guide dog or can't see absolutely at all. Matter of fact, most people with blindness do have some usable vision. So that's important. I think for people to know that just because you're blind doesn't mean you can't see, and it certainly doesn't mean that you don't have vision because I think vision now goes beyond sight and a little bit of a play on words, but I think it's true there. I think that, yeah, that, uh, site is the actual physical occurrence of it. Right. But the vision is it's having the ability to be able to use that sight beyond what you just, what you see. So that's just a little bit about my own personal story and you don't want to hear more, but it's basically, uh, you know, my, then that led me to public service, where I went and served in the governor's office. I worked in the state Senate and, that I ran for office. I'm one of the only people with a disclosed disability to become a city counselor at large in my hometown. So I became an elected official. Then I ran for statewide office. So I'm one of the few people in Massachusetts, certainly to ever reach a statewide ballot as a person with a disability. So I tried to, I try to emulate for people with disabilities and people with blindness that, that you can do it. And I failed my first time running for city council. I failed, I didn't win, but I ran again and I won. I persevered. So I'm trying to take my own advice there, and learn from failure. Failure if you do it. I think if you do something with a plan and you're positive about it and you have goals and it's structured and you're, uh, and you're working within, you know, a rational, a rational basis that then if it doesn't work out, there are things you can learn from that to build on for the next time, or to take into another aspect of your life to try to, again, try to improve your condition. Because that's really what I'm all about is I'm trying to improve the human condition through public service, trying to lend whatever talent I have to the Massachusetts Commission for the Blind, so that we can serve our consumers best.
[Doug]: You know, and just, because I want to get a little bit more into what you do at MCB and, and you know, how your also political life relates to issues of advocacy that I know are really important. And so some things that we also discussed in our last discussion, but yeah, just a question as far as, you know, that very compellingly told personal story that you shared with us. And I'm just wondering, you know, in relation to what you shared about, you know, some people hearing what your glasses prescription is and saying, oh, well you're not really blind. And then talking and opening up the topic of the spectrum of that community and how it's not a binary blind/sighted thing, but there's a real spectrum there. I'm wondering in your own personal journey where you've described the experience of, you know, first as, as a child, understanding the prospect of potentially being blind with, you know, what you were diagnosed with and your brother before you, then being told, oh, no, like you're good. Like don't worry about it. And then having that accident that led to blindness and having this kind of like back and forth, almost seesaw rather than either it being something that was just there from birth and that's how it was, or there being like one very specific moment where you went from sighted to being blind and low vision. I'm wondering if there, if there was something in that back and forth, particularly that really kind of molded in a more specific way your experience and how that plays out in as commissioner and what you do in your work. Is that a clear question there?
[David]: Yeah. Yeah. I get, I get similar questions like that all the time and it's really, uh, I try to be a humble person. I mean, whatever talents I have, I believe, I'm a believer, so I believe it comes from a higher power and, uh, I'm blessed to be here too. So whatever, whatever talents I have, I feel like I'm just kind of working through those talents, uh, in another way. So there's a little metaphysical piece to it though, just to be honest. Uh, but I still face that seesaw. I could wake up tomorrow sneeze and lose my vision. I could walk out and get hit in the head and detached my retina lose my vision. And those won't be happy times if, and when that happens, but I at least like I know now and like, I'll have to deal with it and everything else. So I think it's always an acceptance. I think like it's never a finite thing. It's never a finalized thing. It's always a process. And so I try to conduct myself that way. Like to me, there's not much, well, it's my way or the highway or it's this, or it's that or bright lines or, you know, it's all about a dialogue. It's all about what can we do because many of these solutions that we're seeking are complex. If they were easy, they would just be done. And then, but they're not easy. We have, again, if we have 26,000 consumers, we have 26,000 separate people to try to help ameliorate blindness for right in our original statute, it was to ameliorate blindness to, you know, so whatever we can do to put programs and services and tools in place to be able to assist people to overcome whatever obstacles or challenges they're facing as a result of lack of vision, because it's a very visual world, the world, the earth, and none of the people who evolved, evolved on it have set up systems in place that are geared towards being able to see. And so the, our population, which is a distinct minority is, is constantly trying to overcome that and problem solve for that. So I just see so many opportunities for our consumers because they're natural problem solvers people with blindness and people with disabilities for that matter are natural problem solvers in terms of always trying to think of a way around and how can I make this work for me? And so those are, those are tremendous qualifications when it comes to things like getting employed or getting involved with organizations or whatever, whatever you want, you're trying to do. That's, those are very positive attributes that many people kind of struggle with, but people with disabilities it's innate to them. So I really view that as a competitive advantage. So, but trying to get somebody who's newly blinded or, or has a new disability, you can't go right to that because I don't know, they're, they're still dealing with acceptance. They're still dealing with the suffering and the trauma, uh, because there there's quite a bit of stigma involved and stigma is a two way street. Oftentimes people think of it as stigma as it's just this one thing. It's just like society and it's, but it's, this stigma is from both the person out and from the, the out the society into the person, it's both. And so I think you really need to work on both to be able to come to terms and get to a comfort level where you can then start working on solutions.
[Doug]: And, you know, just like, you're describing like two scenarios that I imagine MCB deals with both in someone who's maybe newly blind and, or still in a space of kind of really just coming to that acceptance and being, working on maybe skills that are needed to, being on their road to prosperity versus someone who's really ready and is seeking employment really like ,really ready to enter, say the workforce or that field of prosperity there. I imagine that something MCB deals with like both sides of that coin is that, and can you talk a little bit more about how you kind of field both sides of that?
[David]: We have tremendous institutional knowledge that we can bring to bear. We're one of the oldest, if not the oldest state governmental blindness agency in the country and our central registry is a first of its kind anywhere. Uh, one of my predecessors, one of the first commissioners is Helen Keller of Mass Commission for the Blind. So, uh, the institutional knowledge we possess at MCB and my staff, I give all the credit to my staff. We have such a tremendous team who are completely mission-driven people and the talents that they bring, on me really all the time. I mean, the stories that are in MCB is tremendous. So really though some of the first services that we bring to bear for people are there is that acceptance, that acceptance to blindness counseling. Uh, and so in Massachusetts, the way that it works is through Massachusetts general law. When you go see your eye doctor, your eye doctor makes the determination. If you're legally blind, if you meet that 20/200 visual acuity, if you do, they're mandated by the law to report that visual acuity to us. At that point, we reach out to the consumer and let them know that we are their state government they're to work for them. And we have programs and services to bring to bear again, to help ameliorate their blindness. And that often starts with the adjustment to blindness counseling and then other bedrock things that we know that work, services like orientation and mobility services and assistive technology services. And then further along if they're of working age vocational rehabilitation services, or if they're an SR consumer, social rehabilitation consumer, they tend to be 65 and older. It's more of a support group model where we can get them with peers and they can talk about things because oftentimes the majority of our, uh, of our cases of our consumers at MCB have aged into blindness. So they've gone 30, 40, 50 years or more of their life with no usable vision. They weren't legally blind, but now because of age related macular degeneration or diabetic retinopathy or glaucoma, they've now aged into blindness. So again, no two are alike, right? So, so working with the consumer, who is the average age of our consumers, about 81 now working with an 85 year old woman who had a driver's license and, you know, spent most of her life, very independent with good vision, but now she doesn't, she's gotten to a point in her life where she doesn't have it, that person's circumstance is much different than somebody who was born totally blind and is 20 years old right now. And we're trying to get them into college and into, into vocational outcomes and things like that. So it really is case by case, but the themes are the same. It's acceptance to blindness it's, it's getting these bedrock skills of moving around in the orientation of mobility and being able to use technology.
[Doug]: I'm going to hold just for a moment while we do an interpreter switch.
[David]: Great. Great.
[Doug]: All right. We are up and going here. Excellent. So continuing. Yeah. And you know, I imagine that as you described, as some people who have maybe aged into blindness or are still coming to acceptance of it, that are maybe on the cusp, I imagine there's some people that might try, because you mentioned how legally certain, they need to be reported to your institution. I imagine there's some people that try to kind of like bat that off or kind of go like, oh no, that's not me. They've gotten something wrong. I imagine that's also something you have to deal with from time to time.
[David]: Yeah. We're constantly dealing with that, particularly around people's independence, because if you've had a driver's license for 30 years, 40 years, whatever, and you know, that independence is, is now ingrained within you. And if you get declared legally blind, we have an obligation. We coordinate with the registry of motor vehicles and we send them the, uh, you know, saying, look, you need to, here's a consumer we know about now, if they have a license, you've got to, you've got to alert them that they shouldn't have that license now. So we have people who go and they appeal that. And they're like, no, no, I'm not likely to buy it. They'll go back to their doctor. Obviously we want to keep people safe. People who are legally blind and blind should not be driving an automobile. Sorry, I am. I'm the biggest proponent of independence out there, but sorry, if you're legally blind and blind, you shouldn't be driving. It's not safe for you. It's not safe from public. And that those are very difficult situations. And, and again, that's where our counselors come in to work with the person to say to them, look, we have travel passes. There's ways you can still remain independent and travel around the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. And there's other things we can do here. So it's not easy, but that's why we're there. And we're trying,
[Doug]: You know, the, and there's certainly something about Massachusetts, isn't there, in that, with the history that MCB has with, you know, Perkins, shout out to Perkins, our friends there, it's, it just feels like there's such a rich history of supporting the blind and low vision community there. I, which I imagine could probably do a whole history lesson on some other time, but at least just identifying that, I find that so interesting that so much of the history of blind services in this country seems to, if not originat in Massachusetts, certainly cross through there at some point.
[David]: I mean, we've got a shout out to a number of our partners, Helen Keller National Center, Helen Keller was one of our first commissioners, Carroll Center for the Blind in Massachusetts, Perkins School for the Blind, MABVI, which is the Massachusetts Association of Blind and Visually Impaired. They're actually the first, they beat us, by like a year. They're actually like the first blind, the oldest blindness agency in the, in the nation. That's why we say we're the first governmental blindness agency, but, uh, so MABVI and just so many other programs I could go on. And on our radio reading services that we have may make all it, uh, sight loss services down the Cape, Lowel Center up in Lowel, National Braille Press is based here. I mean, and just all the other relationships we have with many national organizations and international organizations over the years. And, uh, so many people like my deputy commissioner, I think he's got 40 something years at MCB. We just had a retirement of somebody 43 years. One of our orientation and mobility director just got an award last week. Uh, and she has, I think, 41 years of service. So we do have, uh, we're blessed with riches, intellectual riches and, uh, really again, that institutional knowledge that we bring to bear for all of our consumers and the blindness community
[Doug]: And, Hillary, who's writing says from Facebook points out the New England Consortium on DeafBlindness is another/
[David]: Yeah. Thank you for that. I don't want to leave anybody out. I'm sure I left a lot out.
[Doug]: I'm sure there's a few others we're missing out, but, but certainly a long list there. You know, I want to get back to employment for a second. Obviously that's something that is extremely important to you.,
[David]: VR 100 vocational rehabilitation celebrates a hundred years this year. Yeah.
[Doug]: Certainly we can talk about that. And I know it's something that's also very important, um, to our ongoing partners in Helen Keller Services and the Helen Keller National Center. You know, and getting back to something that you said before about the importance of employment in the sense of, that sense of, you know, identity and prosperity, and really, you know, that personal sense of, of, uh, really having an impact on the world and, and carving your own place in it. You know, I think there's also a lot of things to connect this to your political history as well. And the advocacy topics that we've discussed in the past. Also employment leads to buying power leads to a whole lot of other ripple effects of how much representation and thought various community, various communities are given, both by the media and in politics and so on and so forth. So certainly, you know, it goes, it covers everything from that personal sense of identity all the way down to how a community is perceived and treated by society as a whole. So certainlyit's, very important. Nilam wrote to us a little while ago, writing to us from Facebook. Hi, Nilam, she writes in reference to what you're talking about a little while ago, the statistics of two thirds of the disability population not in the workforce is alarming. What do we need to change that? Is it only about available options and infrastructure, or is job readiness and education a big part of the problem? So how would you start to answer that?
[David]: Yeah, I would say thank you for the question, first of all. And if I had the best answer, we wouldn't be here right now. Right. But, that's what I'm in constant pursuit of is that answer. And I don't think it's one answer. I think it's a series of answers. And let me start with it this way. Doug, first shout out to you, and to audio described, I'm giving Doug a thumbs up for what you're doing, because really through Feeling Through the movie, you had an actor that was somebody who was deafblind. So often in movies and TV, when there is a person with a disability represented, which they're totally underrepresented by the way, characters, those characters often are not played by a person with a disability. So that's kind of like a double whammy. And I think that's kind of like my inroads to the answer here is there's, there's a saying in the disability community, nothing about us without us. Well, so let's get us involved. And that means on every level. So taking part in whether it's entertainment, public service, you know, any ideas of entrepreneurship, you would have jobs educational and the whole gamut of society. We've got to get our people involved and by not participation, you're not involved. So that's why I'm so alarmed by the two thirds of working age, people with disabilities, not in the labor force, because they're not even involved, right. So let's get them involved and, and becoming employed as a process. It's not just any one thing. It starts with mentoring and then to interning and then interviewing, and then getting a job and then getting another job. Because just because you get one job who in their life has one job, no, you go from job to job, and then you get promoted and things like that. So I encourage people to think of things as a process. It's not any one thing, but it's a process. And that process means people getting the education and the experience and the training and becoming employed and the, and the whole thing to it. So again, it's back to, back to my axiom, the path to prosperity is paved by perseverance. It's a vote, a path persevering, because not all the experiences you have are going to have the best outcome or the desired outcome, but you got to hang in there and you gotta keep trying, you got to do the 99 nos before you get the one yes. And I just really think let's go back to that two thirds for a second in that two thirds of all working age people with disabilities, without it, without who out of the labor force, there's talent. And somewhere in there, there's, I don't know a cure for cancer or a better light bulb or some app or a beautiful poem or something, but there is talent there. And as a society, we need that talent and individually, we want the people to realize their talent. So that's what drives me every day is just trying to leverage that. And, but it can be tough, again, it's easier to say, but when you're newly blinded and you have no vision, it's tough to say, get down into the workforce, come on, let's get you a job. Like you're not ready for homework. You're not ready for that. Like you first get to become to acceptance and then teach you the skills. And then, so it's a process.
[Doug]: Yeah. And, you know, so much great stuff you said in there just kind of get to get back to the representation component again, you know, something that I find. So interesting about that is like, I think it's, it's such a current issue, right? Like we're seeing a lot of people right now in our country rising up saying that they're not considered in the same way that other groups of people are. Certainly that topic, you know, is something that, that couldn't be more relevant right now. And I think a lot of times when you have any marginalized community, that is marginalized in a whole number of ways, whether resources, representation in government representation in media, you know, I think what you get is this disparity between how a community is represented to be as far as numbers and impact and what the reality of the situation is. And there being this huge gap in between the two. And I think, you know, something that we talk about a lot in Feeling Through is particularly...I'm going to actually just hold for one moment. I think, Erin, would it be okay if we switched back to you for, I think Jamie's getting a little choppy. Is that okay? Erin, are you, yeah. Okay, great. I'm going to just switch for a second here. So Erin, I got you back up here. Great. So the, one of the things during this time of COVID is also how much, how much it's tied up the internet lines here. So certainly we've all dealt with that.
[David]: Yeah. Doug, we adapt.
[Doug]: Exactly. Here we are adapting, on the fly. But something that we definitely talk about a lot in Feeling Through, you know, using the deafblind community is such a great example of that is it is a community where, you know, again, depending on what numbers you refer to it's, it's anywhere from a very large community to a huge community numbers wise. I mean, there are, there are, and I think in a way that few people who aren't directly connected to that community realize because there's zero representation of that community in media, you know, you never, certainly never see them in movies as we're a first, unfortunately in that regard, very rarely do you see covered, the community covered in any way in mainstream media, ironically, a little bit more during this time of COVID being that it's a community that relies on touch during a time where it touches prohibited. So there's a little bit more coverage than normal, but certainly pales in comparison to the actual size of the community and how many people are part of it. And I think what you get is someone like me, you know, as far as the going back, like nine years ago, the origin story of Feeling Through, and at the time being someone who's a 27 year old adult, who's meeting a deafblind person for the first time and really considering or thinking about that community in any way whatsoever for the very first time. A lot of people who aren't connected to Feeling Through who join us for The Feeling Through Experience and our eyes are open to this community that they've never considered, and they might be 30, 40, 50 years old and never thought about a community that has, you know, millions and millions and millions of people around the world, it just goes to show the importance of that representation because when you're not seen, you're not considered and when you're not considered, you're left out from an accessibility standpoint, from a consideration standpoint, as far as allocating resources and a whole host of things. So, you know, I want to like, how would you relate that to, and I know this is something that we had the pleasure of speaking about last time, but I want to talk about advocacy on that note for a moment and how important that is. Certainly we tie that to ADA 30 last time. I would love for you to speak on that.
[David]: In this 24 hour news cycle that we're in, right with just constant bombardment of information, any, anywhere you look at technology racing so fast and the earth revolving at 22,000 miles an hour, there's so much going on. And it becomes very competitive to compete for that, uh, being able to be seen and being able to get traction, right? So you and I are, you know, I think we're trying our best to let the rest of our society in on like the best kept secret that there is real talent here. There is real stories to be told here, there are great people here who just so happened to have a disability or blindness or deafblindness. And the challenges that people disappear, these have to overcome to me are the impressive thing. And I think actually are worth more attention because we can learn from that. We, we all, as a society can learn from that. I mean, at the end of the day, all of these things we're talking about, right? Yes, they're difficult to solve for, and there's a lot of challenges, but when you really break it down, some of it becomes very simple, because think of it, we've created all this stuff, whether it's Facebook or video, or the internet or policies or laws or whatever, we created it. So if we want to change it, we can change it. We just need the political, will. We just need the, the will of the people to say, yes, that's important to us. Let's change it. Let's value this more. And I think that time is coming more and more for people with disabilities. The 30th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act just goes to show that we're still only 30 years in here. The Smith Fess Act, which started the vocational rehabilitation, which is a hundred years old this year. So in the grand scheme of our society, we're still only decades in as comparison to some of the other issues that we discuss that are big in society that are just as important not to not to start ranking them. But, but again, yeah, and this is important because disability pervades every race, gender, creed, color society, income, strata country. It knows no boundaries. And it's our brothers and our sisters and our friends and our neighbors. And I just believe that the human condition is improved when everybody's involved. And when we're leveraging everybody's talents and to not leverage the talents of somewhere between 12 and 20% of the population or not leverage them fully, it's a disservice to the people in that group and society. And so I think we're, we're starting to get that out there more and more people are realizing that I'm doing my part, I think are trying my best to, to lead that effort. And, and when we can get people like you, who create movies that are interesting and popular and, and can bring attention to this. That's important, Doug. So again, I thank you for that. And we've got to do more, you know, look at Hollywood there's initiatives out there where we're trying to press the Academy to get more people more roles, number one more disabilities, portrayed and characters in these movies or videos or TV shows or whatever the case may be. But then also have them represented by people who have disabilities, so still work to do, but we keep trying.
[Doug]: As we continue to push on those fronts as well, we're certainly gonna call you up to get your assistance on that. And, you know, you said it so beautifully in that how important that is. And I loved what you said about I'm paraphrasing here, but that we're all at our best as a society when we're leveraging everyone's talents and connecting that to the other thing that you said that was so beautifully put of, like, we created all this, so we can, we can also change it, or we can, we can create a different way or a better way. And I think that sometimes that gets lost so much too in that sometimes people kind of throw their hands up and almost be like, well, you know, yeah, it sucks. But like, what are you going to do? Or like, it seems like this insurmountable thing it's like, sometimes government becomes this monolith where it's like, oh, well, losing sight that it's actually people that make it up and the constituents are supposed to be the people like driving the policies. Then it's almost like, well, it's this huge thing that's so much bigger than me. And there's nothing we can do or media, we lose sight of the fact that it's individuals that make it up and go, well, it's just this huge thing. And like, yeah, it it'd be great, but there's nothing we can do. But there is something we can do.
[David]: Absolutely. And think of this Alexander Graham Bell credited by many with having the first phone system, right. The bell system. And look, he had some very bad views on eugenics and things like that that are better terrible, but let's look at the good thing that he did too, which was essentially invent the telephone, which then led to the internet. Right. And so would we have the internet today, if it wasn't for that anyway, do you know why he created the telephone? His wife and mother were deaf, and he was seeking a way to be able to ameliorate their deafness. So you could argue that the internet today was spawn by trying to, uh, you know, provide an accommodation for people with disabilities. Now that might be a little bit of a stretch, but I guess the point is that clearly he was motivated by a disability to create something. And there's more of that out there. I just know it, but with two thirds not taking part that's, that's a problem and we've got to try to solve it and I'm trying to solve it. You're trying to solve it. The people here are trying to solve it. So we've got to try to do our best to influence people, to take part and to want to improve the human condition. Join us.
[Doug]: Yeah. I love the analogy that you use, the anecdote there about the telephone, you know, I think something that I just realized signing on to Facebook today, as you know, we do our post day of to promote our conversation. There's an option to use alt text, for those who are unfamiliar, that's an ability to describe an image so that someone who's blind or low vision can hover over that image and get a readout of what that image looks like and what it's describing. And, you know, I put that in on Facebook. You can do it on Twitter. You can do it on Instagram, and something that I realized today that's new, I believe today, because I didn't notice it yesterday was that they've very much, they've used technology to very much better the technology behind the all text. So now that the default all texts, which used to just be like in an image of like a flyer where I have all this written information and that's a picture of you and a picture of me, used to just say like two people. And that was it. Now I had, it was able to read the image and have all essentially all of the information already there. And why does that happen? Well, because Facebook is pressured by people speaking out saying, hey, you need to do this. There's millions of people who rely on this. You need to make this better. And that doesn't happen if people don't speak up, that doesn't happen if that's not made known,
[David]: But before Doug, there's a great business case for too. Dahlia Shaewitz and Michelle Yin had done a great paper on the spending power of people with disabilities and it's in the tens of billions of dollars a year. So if I'm, if I'm somebody selling a product or service, do I want to be able to pick up market share of 10 to 20% of the population? Of course I do. So the more I can address what that population is seeking, the better positioned I am to be able to get them as customers. So I think it makes a good business case as well.
[Doug]: Absolutely. And I think that's something that, again, those are two things that very much drive society sometimes, unfortunately, more the business side of things than the, just the simple realization that like, hey, everyone deserves support to day,
[David]: The right thing to do. Yeah. It's in a law by the way.
[Doug]: And let's like, let's remove the humanity from, for a second. It's like, Hey, all you companies that are driven by profit, you're missing out on some really serious profit here. Like even if you're not inclined to, you know, quote unquote, do the right thing, at least do the right thing for your Q3 numbers. And, you know, there's this huge buying power here that's going unnoticed and are unserved. So certainly you make a really good point as far as that being a reality of, of the situation too. And that it's something that needs to be addressed. But, but again, I think, um, you know, there's technology really affords us things that we weren't able to do before and, really, really expedite and make it so much more efficient, bringing these various elements of accessibility and inclusion to a reality. And again, there's really, there's no reason it shouldn't be happening in so many spaces
[David]: That can be a force multiplier for people with disabilities and really help level the playing field and a number of, uh, professional, personal, all types of different ways. So the accessibility is key. Absolutely.
[Doug]: So knowing that, and you're going to, I'm already going to say this, but you're going to have to come back again soon. Because we got, we got a lot more to talk about and we probably have about seven minutes left, but knowing that we're kind of entering the final chapter here and again, for anyone watching, if you have any questions that you want to ask, any questions or comments, feel free. Um, the Commissioner's not shy. So feel free to ask whatever questions you have. I'm wondering how you'd like to use this, this, the remainder of this time, if there's anything that we haven't touched on yet that you really want to talk about in these last seven minutes or so.
[David]: Yeah. I mean the big thing to me is, uh, trying to get people engaged and accepting of the services. We can only provide assistance if people are willing to receive the assistance. So I think it's trying to normalize the services, understanding that disability is a, is a natural part of the human condition. And again, somewhere between 12 and 20% of the, of the population are people with disabilities. But again, back to that stigma from the inside and outside, people don't want to necessarily be disabled, right. And they don't want to, would you want to see more? Would you want to see less? Well, most people are gonna pick more and that's okay. But if you, if, but if you can't see, let's take you through the tried and true methods that we've developed over the years to be of assistance. Your life's not over there's ways we can ameliorate there's things we can do.
[David]: So getting that acceptance, then getting them to take the services. That's the biggest thing is being part of that community. That's why, when you ask me Doug, I was no doubt about it. I'll show up anytime, anywhere, because it is about building a community and about acceptance and about letting people know that it it's okay. It's part of, it's a natural part of the human condition and nobody's perfect. We're all trying here our best to bring the services and programs to bear for all of our consumers. So, uh, naturally we've got to focus on Massachusetts and, and our people, but certainly we want to help our colleagues across other States or other nations. I mean, whatever we can do to try to improve the human condition, we're going to try to do that and, uh, go to our website, mass.com/MCB. I just got to give my team shout outs, uh, particularly my executive team and, Carla Kath, our communications director who think might be out there right now, who does a terrific job, helping us communicate all these, uh, issues that we're talking about. And there's a lot of ways to participate. See us on social media, we're @massblind on Twitter or on Facebook, on LinkedIn, maybe you know of opportunities, maybe some people out there are hiring managers and, you know, have opportunities to employ some people, uh, we'd like to hear from you. So however you want to get in contact with us. We're on all the social media or on the, on the web. You can find us contact us. Uh, we want to collaborate. There's, there's no bad ideas. There's just, uh, ones that aren't implemented. Well, so let's talk about it. I'm all about the dialogue. There's no, there's no perfection. It's just all let's, uh, let's keep moving in the right direction. And again, it's a path, the path to prosperity is paved by perseverance, hang in there. Cause it's not easy. May seem easy when we're just talking about it, but sometimes it can be there's considerable suffering with blindness and with other disabilities, I recognize that having gone through it and still experiencing it, it's not always the bright sunshiny day, but I do try to stay positive and persevere and uh, just keep trying things will get better,
[Doug]: Very well put and shout out to Carla, who is watching and just shared the website and the number, which I'm also sharing to our YouTube feed as well. But you know, Commissioner with one last, the final question that I have for you, is again, congratulations on your two year anniversary as commissioner. That's, you know, we're again really honored to be, have the opportunity to celebrate with you today on that, on this anniversary. And I'm wondering, first what, you know, kind of looking back at these two years so far, what it is that stands out the most to you, or maybe that's something that you're most proud of or if there's any specific moment or achievement or what have you that stands out the most. And then the other part of this question, and again, I'll give you a three minute time limit to answer both of these beause they're coming up at the end is, what are you looking forward to this next year and beyond? What are some of the main topics for you?
[David]: Yeah, so my, my first reaction is, uh, becoming commissioner. Yeah. I had already been a consumer previously to this role. I was the director of the state's office on disability. So I had been in the space, uh, public policy wise and leadership wise. Uh, so my first thing was to not break it because there's so much good work going on. I don't want to go in and just interrupt that. I mean, you want to keep the good work going, but look for opportunities of ways that we can keep improving and keep modifying and always striving to be better. So, you know, recognizing that previous to me getting here, we were, we were still receiving, uh, our registrations via fax machine. So I've made an effort to try to modernize that we've now put that online and we have, you know, so we've really tried to modernize. I've really made that an effort of modernization and, and trying to be, uh, with technology as much as I can. Because I think that's going to benefit our consumers, our team, and really, uh, just keep moving it forward for everybody. So, uh, you know, modernization, uh, efficiencies as best we can and just keep building on the quality services. That's been the emphasis over the, over the two years that I've been commissioner and going forward, it's going to be to continue to do that. Uh, we were a recipient of one of the largest reallotment awards from our funders on the federal level rehabilitation services administration. So we're, uh, coming out with 25 separate projects related to vocational rehabilitation, uh, basically in improving employment outcomes for people with blindness and visual impairment. So those are gonna be coming out October is disability employment awareness month. So we're, we're really going to be making a big push for that. Because again, I, my bottom line is I want to get more people employed, more people into the labor force and then more of those people employed with quality jobs so that they can earn a living and, you know, be self-determined independent. That's my goal. So to continue to do that and, and do it during a pandemic is a bit of a challenge, but we're, we're meeting that. And again, it's all credit to our team at MCB. The great work that they do, uh, continues to impress me every day. So whatever I can do to support them is really that's. My goal is modernization and continue to, to have quality outcomes for people with blindness and visual impairments.
[Doug]: On that note, thank you for that perfect kind of ending to an episode here. That was such a great way to go out.
[David]: Thank you, Doug.
[Doug]: And thank you everybody for joining. I appreciate being here. And again, congratulations on your two year anniversary and certainly we'd love to have you back again soon. Thank you to everyone who tuned in today. If you haven't already please hit the subscribe button on our YouTube channel and follow us on Facebook and other social media. We're Feeling Through on all the things, very easy to find. And also if you're interested in checking out our next Feeling Rhrough Experience, go to feelingthrough.com/register, sign up for your free ticket there. And as always, we'll see you next week. Same time, same place for Feeling Through Live. Have a great weekend. Bye everyone. Thumbs up.