[Doug]: Hello everyone welcome to Episode 41 of Feeling Through Live. I'm very, very honored and excited to be joined today by Taylor Miller and Juliet Romeo from Slamdance, who will introduce themselves in just a moment. But before we do that, I'm going to just do a quick image description of the screen. So you'll see in the top left corner, you'll see Feeling Through live Episode 41. The title is Unstoppable Disability in Film. We'll be explaining what Unstoppable is in just a moment. There's a interpreter box in the top right corner throughout. My box says Doug Roland Feeling Through beneath it. And I have this kind of quirky electric keyboard thing behind me and a mirror over my kind of over my right or left shoulder here. And I'll just say, since they can't see the screen beneath Taylor, it says Taylor Miller Slamdance. Beneath Juliet Romeo, it says Juliet Romeo Slamdance. And Taylor, why don't you take away your image description?
[Taylor]: Hey everybody. My name is Taylor Miller. I'm wearing a green sweater and necklace with the little plane on it. I'm wearing clear glasses. I am a white woman with hair just below my shoulders. I have some books off to my left and behind me is a whiteboard with some information regarding the panels for science
[Doug]: And Juliet.
[Taylor]: Hi everyone. My name is Juliet Romeo. I am a African Caribbean Brown skinned woman. My hair is curly with the three corn row braids on the side. I am wearing a oxygen cannula. My shirt I am wearing a blouse that is black and red, and I think that's a little bit of pinkish, lush, flowers all over it. My backdrop is a white bookshelf with some film chotskies all over them and some awards.
[Doug]: Great. Well, and funny enough I realized, because I described myself every episode I forgot to today, but I'm a white male, mid thirties, Scruff, a little Scruff on my face as per usual, short dark hair. And again the timing of today's episode, couldn't be better because Slamdance is just launched. It is one of the premier festivals in the United States, and what's been really cool about this year that Taylor and Juliet will tell you all about is not only have they been super prepared for this virtual festival and have an amazing offering of films for only $10, which you can get slamdance.com, but there's also a new block of films this year called Unstoppable, which we'll be getting into as well. But before we get into that, Taylor, can you just tell everyone a little bit for people who aren't familiar with Slamdance a little bit about just what, what the festival is and why it's so cool.
[Taylor]: Yeah, for sure. First I want to say thank you, Doug. This is an honor and yeah, just a real privilege to be able to talk with everyone today about filmmaking visible and invisible disabilities for creators of all ages. And I want to thank Erin and Jamie from Helen Keller Services for being our interpreter city. Slamdance is, Slamdance was started in the nineties and it's a festival that I think it was said it's one of those festivals that has to really it's raw and it's original and it's authentic and instead of it kind of being perceived as well it's think outside the box with this festival, it's like, no, forget the box. There's no box. Just don't forget that. Yes, so Slamdance was started in the nineties, right along there was a group of filmmakers and they submitted their, their films to Sundance.
[Taylor]: And those films were not accepted. And so the small group said, you know what, let's start our let's start our own festival from the films that were rejected. They started that and that's been a long, long time ago. They started that up in Park City and, and this year it's a huge deal because it's actually, this is the biggest festival we've ever had literally because of its accessibility. The amount of people that will be able to attend this festival. It's incredible. And we can do it safely from our own homes, it's on demand, it's on Apple TV, it's on Roku and all of these different platforms. I think what's incredible about Slamdance though, is it's by filmmakers for filmmakers. We have some incredible alumni. We get the Russo brothers and Lena Dunham and bombed Bong Joon Ho, just to name a few, but Slamdance has definitely left its mark as a festival that does things a little differently. And I think there's a rawness, there's a rawness to Slamdance and to Slamdance films that really have kind
[Juliet]: Of as a program, I've been a programmer for Slamdance for 10 years. And now I'm currently the festival manager for Slamdance Miami and the manager for the Unstoppable program. But a lot of the films, are first-time filmmakers, and that, and that's awesome. That's awesome that we champion those types of filmmakers, it's not all about big production values. It's about the story. It's about the heart of the story, and really being able to, what's the older Dodge, and I'll give you the same thing, only different films that can do that, and that have done that. And will you know that, that you'll see this year, I'm on Slamdance.com, especially with the Unstoppable program. I mean, it's, it's off the hook. This programs is amazing.
[Doug]: And to pick up on something you were saying there, Taylor, about Slamdance thinking outside the box and also being a festival like for filmmakers by filmmakers. I think that's a perfect segue Juliet into you introducing specifically the Unstoppable block, which is new this year and telling everyone what that is and why it's so cool.
[Juliet]: In the spirit of Slamdance and for filmmakers by filmmakers, the Unstoppable block is, four differently able filmmakers by differently, able to filmmakers. Our programmers are all from the disabled community and we came together and we chose 22 amazing films from disabled filmmakers and actors. And it was such a thrilling experience. And also like what Taylor was saying about Slamdance came about was pretty much the same way that Unstoppable. We saw a space that wasn't being available and having exposure. And we created a space for that. Um, accessibility in a disabled community is so important. And for me as a filmmaker, myself, trying to get to spectacles, I love festivals is like a chore all worth it in the end, no matter what happens, but a chore in itself. And then there's I just got to thinking about how much of a struggle it is for me, and then how many other disabled filmmakers I don't ever get to see at festivals. And so it's difficult for me and I actually can walk, what is it like for someone that can't see or someone that has a wheelchair or crutches. And so just being able to collaborate with Slamdance and have this event where it's like you brought the festival to up us, it was, it's just an amazing feeling.
[Doug]: Yeah. And again, I'd love to get into there's, there's a very interesting origin story, but behind how Unstoppable came to be. And I think it speaks to something that's been a very hot button topic in, in mainstream filmmaking over the last couple of years, but something that also is very, I think, indicative of, of the spirit of Slamdance , being a festival that as a filmmaker, that's currently in it, I can certainly attest to being a very, having a very collaborative spirit with the filmmakers that are a part of it or a part of the extended family. So Juliet, can you go a little bit into like the specifics of the origin story of how Unstoppable came to be?
[Juliet]: A few years ago I went to a festival and I was really excited, actually. It was my first film festival and everything that could happen, as far as for someone that may has accessible needs happened that by the end of the festival, I was in the, in the hospital, like admitted, miss my flight there for two weeks. My oxygen broke, I didn't have access to elevator sometimes, and the sweltering heat of New York city in the summer, it was everything yet. It was still amazing. Like I'm literally in the hospital going, this was Epic. Will I do this again? Probably. Yes. But the struggle was always there. And for my second festival, I, it was local, but I realized this is just always going to be a struggle. And, but I didn't see any other options out there for us or for people like me.
[Juliet]: And so I wrote a proposal, I wrote a letter, not really knowing what I was going to do with it. And then I had this opportunity in 2020, a film coach that I have been really good friends with Joanne Butcher. She had like a virtual event where she would invite filmmakers and people in the industry to speak about whatever they were talking about. This time, It was Peter Baxter of Slamdance . And he was talking about the future of film festivals and where would they go from here? After the pandemic. And I was able to ask him a question that I think really struck him to the core, which was, what does your festival look like? Does it have disability and diversity inclusion? And he, his answer was no, but he was not happy with that answer at all. And it was like, you can tell he was thinking about it. And I was like, well I wrote a proposal. I would love for you to take a look at it and see.
[Taylor]: if you like the ideas I've come up with, and that's pretty much all she wrote.
[Doug]: To kinda talk about that, maybe Taylor from the Slamdance side of things, Juliet speaks in that origin story of how through her own experience, as, as a filmmaker at of festival, finding it really difficult from an accessibility standpoint, reaching out to getting connected with Slamdance and broaching that subject and Slamdance being very receptive, and now having created the most accessible festival you have yet. What was that like on your side, as far as maybe conversations around accessibility prior to Juliet broaching that and how things have evolved since that conversation?
[Taylor]: It's been a conversation in the making for a while. But I think that when the timing of the year that we've all had. Last year sort of, it was really important to take. I actually, I think originally, Juliet had, had sort of suggested something like a workshop or something, something like that. And then Peter Baxter had said, well, or just a approach let's just, let's just do this let's go big or go home let's do a program. I think the, the obvious thing, right, is that, I know that Juliet and I, and you too Doug I wish that this was something that had been done 10 years ago and then it wasn't. That it's not something that we're just doing now, but, but I think what's more important is to focus on, it's not like, why you're late to the table, it's that we've gotten to the table at all and that we will continue to do so for many years to come. I think that the collaboration aspect of the this is key because through Juliet's letter and through all of our programmers, have visible and invisible disabilities. And so the accessibility factor, there were so many layers of it, but we were able to do something so different, in thinking about the coming festival for this year, because the inability to have it in person. So automatically we were at a place that we hadn't really been before completely, where things had been offered online, but for the most part, right, everything was, it's a film festival everything's in person. And so the switch to that, for people to be able to access all of this from home, there was something I think really incredible
[Juliet]: About how that affected our programmers, but also our filmmakers, because they weren't in a place where they were like, I can't, my film got in. I can't make it. I can't be there. It was like, no, everybody can be, so I think, it wasn't accessibility in theory, it was an action. And you know, it's virtual accessibility, but it's accessibility the same. One of the things that, I remember speaking, one of the times I spoke with Peter and his concern was, are you okay? We're gonna do everything virtually, what do you feel? And I was like, this is my home. Like, this is where I do everything. Virtually is like, it's, this is new to, to you guys, but it's not new to us. It's what we have been asking for the ability to work from home, the ability to go to school from home, the ability to go to certain events from our space where, where everything is be accessible to us, as opposed to us going out into the outside world and having to adapt to everyone else, like you guys find not to come in and adapt to our world and how easy it really was for you to do that. When I mentioned that to Peter, that was another like aha moment for him that he just was like, wow, this is, this is really great because I never thought about the fact that where, you guys are used to this already. This is gonna be a piece of cake for you guys.
[Doug]: And it's such an interesting topic because, when the pandemic first hit and we were all doing everything virtually the predominating discussion was like, Oh, how terrible is this? Like, it's so annoying. We can't be in person. We can't do this. We can't do that. But something that, another narrative that has emerged particularly, in the disability community is the ways in which, in a lot of facets, not all of course, but in a lot of facets words created a real parody for people with disabilities in ways that they'd never experienced before. Juliet, like you're saying, like you were mentioning people who would have even less of an ability to navigate a physical film festival than, than your experience, which was still challenging, but people who might have even a harder time to get anywhere in a physical festival can now be everywhere, virtually in a way that has never been available to them and really be on the same plane as everyone else experiencing that festival. And I think it's such an interesting time, I feel like to be leaning into accessibility because there is something about the virtual landscape that is like a really interesting first step into really embracing accessibility in all the different ways and, and instituting that across the whole platform of Slamdance . So that makes me think though, Taylor question for you, obviously we've just begun, Slamdance today, so there's plenty going on right now to
[Taylor]: Address 20 minutes ago,
[Doug]: Right. About 20 minutes ago. I'm going to talk about next year Slamdance for a moment, even though we've just gotten into this one, but I'm just wondering what, if any discussions have started to emerge of when we're back in person, how we kind of knowing that there's this commitment to accessibility and really embracing that and continuing to understand that and evolve that over time, what may be early thoughts are there, how to implement that in a, in a physical setting again, when, when we are able to do that?
[Taylor]: First off, I just wanted to say that before I answer that, this question of accessibility, I think, as it pertains to our Unstoppable filmmakers, is that the films themselves, that, that are in this year's program. They show the different ways of accessibility and the way that it's been represented and misrepresented in film and advertisements through the story and through the content that they've built. And I think that that's just something to mention, because in each of these films, the filmmaker has taken their perspective and showed us that, we're in this program where we are able to access real authentic stories. And what I mean by that is, I think we've talked a lot Juliet and the programmers this year. And one of the really important pieces of this was to really look at tropes and look at characters and look at moments in the arc of storytelling, where the disabled person comes in at this time.
[Taylor]: And so I, I'm just going back to, to the core question of accessibility, and linking it to the program this year, because whether it's documentary or it's, a narrative, short, it's also only this year in our first, in our inaugural year, it's only short films. So one thing to answer your question, Doug, in, in the future, we hope to, that's a question we're all going to be having, but we hope to include, feature-length films possibly. But in terms of, an in-person experience, I think that that part of what's been so successful and genuine is that our we've let our programmers build this right. So turning to Juliet and to Asha Chai Chang and Gabriel Cordell, Chris Furby and Steve way and saying, okay, let's say that next year, everything is in person. What is the most important thing that we do on that level? Another person that's been amazing, for us to talk with and really learn from is Jason and his vision and his leadership as it pertains to accessibility, adaptability, and authenticity is something that's really quite profound. So I'd love to give you a simple question of, I mean, a simple answer of saying, okay, well, this, I envisioned that when, when you walk in, it would be like this and that. I think that, it goes more broad than that, because I think that the collaborative aspect is, is something that's going to have to really be enforced for us to all really, come together with a vision for, for in-person. Would you agree with that Juliet or? Absolutely. But I do feel like it's important for the virtual space to still be present. Oh, absolutely. Yes. For, Unstoppable I think it's here to stay. I think virtual.
[Doug]: And that is such a cool again, like I think that's, obviously through the lens of accessibility, it's such a great thing to have as this we, it feels like we've discovered something that's kind of always been staring us in the face in a way of this, like, wow, this is like, actually not that hard to do. And it opens up so many doors, even when things are all well and good for us to congregate together again, why not continue to do this and, and inherently continue to provide accessibility while we're also working through how to make the physical experience more accessible. And it's such an amazing by-product of this and Taylor to kind of pick up on something you were just talking about, as we transition from the topic of accessibility, to representation of people with disabilities in front of, and behind the camera and storytelling and narratives that really, support the diverse understanding of these really diverse communities and that doesn't pigeonhole them in kind of like historical tropes that really set these communities back something that's so cool about what you did with the Unstoppable program this year is that it was programmed entirely by a panel of jurors where people with disabilities themselves, Juliet I'd love you being part of that panel of jurors. talking about the significance of that. Cause I don't know if I've ever heard of that before, but maybe if you could kind of share, the importance of the way in which the actual, panel was constructed in the first place.
[Juliet]: It was really important, for me when we were pulling together the panel. And then when we finally met all the other programs and we got together, I think it really hit us that this is important that we, there was there's this space where we know we understand each other, even if we all have different tastes and films, different, uh, disabilities, different ideas about the world. The one thing that we understood is that a struggle or a difficult space that we, we feel we always have to adapt to on the outside. And so when we started to look at the films, we, what one thing we always agreed on was we need to know if we love the film. One of the first things was how authentic is this? Is this actor, will we be a real disabled person? Or are they an actor acting as a disabled character? And so some films would just, we loved it and it broke our heart to find that out. Cause we're like, okay, we, we can't do it, but you know, Taylor, we'll tell you, she's like, you guys are cold=hearted because we can be like, yes, we love this. But then we found something, we found out something that wasn't authentic, like, and it's not to take away anything from the film, but it was like, this is what we want to represent to our audience. And that was really important to us that the representation was true and authentic, um, down to the very end we, that was something that we really wanted to stick to. And so yeah,
[Taylor]: I said you were cold-hearted as a joke because they wouldn't budge. No, no, no, no, no, no. And then not, not that I was telling them to budge, but it was intense when, especially, in deliberations when we're discussing films and, and that, that was really that, that was a really hard to look operations. Yeah. There were so many fantastic, fantastic films
[Juliet]: And yeah,
[Doug]: We talk, we've talked certainly plenty in this platform about authenticity and authentic casting, particularly when it comes to disability in film and, both, Juliet and Taylor, you're just talking about having that really hard line of, Hey, it might be a good film. It might even be a really good film, but it wasn't authentic and that therefore it doesn't fit in what we're trying to do here for people who are maybe coming to this, who are still kind of understanding what often authentic casting is, what authenticity in, in disability, in disability and film, what that really means. Can you talk Juliet a little bit more about why that's so important and why it was important to draw that hard line, even with films that maybe were good films, but didn't follow through in authenticity in the way that you're describing
[Juliet]: It was important for me because I wanted other disabled filmmakers or creatives to see that disabled filmmakers and actors matter, but also to open the eyes of able-bodied filmmakers to see that these kinds of actors exist. Like you don't have to cast someone to pretend to be disabled when you have not even had someone in your casting, audition that is disabled and how specific we even talked about when you are casting, you can't just put out a casting there says looking for a disabled person, everyone will show up, what exactly are you looking for? Who exactly is that character? And so, that was just really important that we, that we represented properly. But then we also educated, people that did not know what did not understand or did not know how, or what steps to take? So I feel like, we did a good job with that. We, it was just, I had these boxes that I, we had to check off before I could say, okay, this, this is okay.
[Doug]: I'm going to take a quick pause for an interpreter switch.
[Juliet]: Okay.
[Doug]: All right. Continuing here. And Juliet, thank you for going a little bit more into that, because I think what's really important. And this is coming from someone who is certainly learned a lot about the process of authentic casting, and authenticity and disability storytelling, through the process of, what's been a three-year journey for me to make an exhibit feeling through. So I can certainly put a foot in both worlds of someone who not too long ago, knew very little about this to now having it be a very important part of my day-to-day life, for multiple years now, I think what people, that you've really captured, what you're talking about that sometimes people don't understand is the fact that for so long, there have been so few opportunities for people with disabilities in storytelling, both behind and in front of the camera. Cause I know there's sometimes this argument of like, well, come on, it's acting like the whole point is to take on another person's experience as your own, and really just honor that from wherever, be an actor, right. And look, in a complete vacuum and in a complete different world that is not the world that we live in and have lived in for many years. Yeah. Maybe in some alternate universe that, that has some validity to it. But the reality of the situation that we live in is that for many, many years, really the history of film, as we know it in, in many other parts of our society, there've been so few opportunities and, given to people with disabilities in film and so few structures that have supported people with disabilities, telling their stories through film that there needs to be right now, this hard line drawn where it's like, because there's so many talented people with disabilities, who've never had the opportunity as, and there's still so few stories relative to the pool of all stories being told that include people with disabilities when people with disabilities make up as much as perhaps depending on what numbers, you look at a quarter of our population in this country, until we get to any sort of, place where this, the people on both sides of the camera and the stories that we tell are reflective of the percentage of the large percentage of people with disabilities that make up our society.
[Doug]: There is a need to really, focus on and create more opportunities that have not been there historically. And I think that's something that, sometimes people who may be argue on the other side are not really understanding that part of the conversation.
[Juliet]: And that's what I wanted my mans to be able to translate for them. Because as much as we need to build, create this safe space for filmmakers, we also want to open up that space and invite everyone else. And when that doesn't, it's not like, a disabled only club. We want to be able to interact and collaborate with all filmmakers, but just as Slamdance , embrace this opportunity. We want to embrace the able community and have the able body community embrace us and see, even opportunities for them that they had never thought of. I done panels before at other festivals where I'm telling filmmakers like the importance and different types of opportunities. You have yourself when you open up the doors of opportunities for people that are just able for actors that are just able for cast and crew, there are so many other opportunities and funding and everywhere else, and you're blocking yourself off of that because you're,
[Taylor]: You're not even thinking about how, how many layers you have your story can have just by doing this.
[Doug]: And, that makes you think of the fact that particularly when you have a film festival that has so many films in it, right? Like a major film Fest, like Slamdance. Taylor do you have that number off the top of your head of how many films are in this year's festival or I'm putting it on the spot, but it's a lot, right?
[Taylor]: Yeah, no, no, no. I'd say it's, it's a lot. I mean, so I think it's over a hundred, but thousands upon thousands of submissions.
[Doug]: So you have thousands of submissions, like over a hundred that make the festival. And when I think one of the cool things about that, I love about film festivals is that you see so many stories, in very short time, like succession, right? So you might be seeing watching three, 10 or more films in one day, like back to back to back.
[Taylor]: And there's when you watch,
[Doug]: There's something different about watching a lot of films in short succession that you start to, there's a context that starts to emerge that is not just the film you just saw, but how that film plays
[Taylor]: Unrelated to the other films. Exactly. And that's, what's the experience that you're having, the experience that you're having in the environment that you're surrounded by while you're having it example is details, makeup, sort of that, that viewing experience and sort of what you know
[Doug]: Exactly. And, and through the lens of disability and film, I think for me, something that I've noticed in, in Taylor, I have a, I have a question for you out of this, but I think something that's really interesting is that when you, when you have this very unexplored territory in relation to a lot of other themes and types of films of, the disability, and film, and does storytelling, that includes, storylines and characters with disabilities being a really unexplored territory. Fortunately starting to emerge more, but still, few and far in between relative to, filmmaking as a whole, when you see a lot of stories in short succession, you're probably gonna be your interest is probably really going to be peaked by the type of story that you haven't seen before. And maybe aren't going to see after which in this case is, is a lot of stories that include, themes and characters with disabilities. Because I think one of the things that a lot of people enjoy about seeing films and a lot of films in succession is that thing that grabs them, that's different that they haven't seen before. And I'm wondering,
[Taylor]: I'm just going to say that it's sort of, right. Like I was saying at the beginning that this, this concept of give me the same thing, only different except, I shared, two films with, a best friend of mine last night and her husband and, they didn't really know, much about, they're not, they're not filmmakers. But they didn't know much about the Unstoppable program or I told him it was launching today. And, and, when they, when they called me after they viewed both of the films that they're, that are in the Unstoppable per program, they said, I've never, I've never seen something like that. Or if I have, I've never seen it done in such a way that's made me reconsider the way that I'm thinking about the things that I'm experiencing. So on one hand, I think that, one thing that was really important for the programmers and the whole team, right, is, let's show reality. Let's, let's, let's show what is going on here and, and, and how, how people are represented and misrepresented and let's show that let's also have, and this was something that's very important for Juliet. Let's also make sure that there are films in this festival where, it's a story and the story has a disabled person in it, or the director is disabled, but it's not the main, it's not about the distability, not about the disability. So, right. So this is what's, so it's such a fine line, right? Because I think one of the intentions here this year, and for every year it comes is, is to make it about, to bring that to the front. And yet it's, it's gotta be done in such a way that, it's not about disabled filmmakers, it's about filmmakers, right. I would say something like, what was it that I always said? It's about giving these filmmakers possibility in spite of the disability, opening up the doors to those possibilities, but not because of a disability.
[Doug]: Yeah. I love that. And I think, again, it feels like you've really done that in the right way of Slamdance in because Taylor, like you said, it, it really is, there is a real, like tight rope to walk on that, particularly when you're in the context of the current context, we're in, if we were maybe hopefully as we move forward in years, and this becomes something that is, all types of stories are embraced and shown it with such regularity that it's the conversation has really evolved and storytelling has really evolved, but where we're at right now, there's this fine line between highlighting it, but not making it about that. And that is something that both of those things are necessary. And it's, it's a tough thing to do. But I think what I love so much about getting to be a part of, Slamdance with Feeling Through and getting to communicate with, both of you and the jurors that make up this section is you've made it a so collaborative and B by having it be, again, selected by a panel of jurors with disabilities and having them lead the conversation in a lot of ways, I think kind of inherently you've you, you've, it's enabled you to talk about both sides of that and in the way that both need to be talked about to not make it too much about one side of that or the other.
[Taylor]: It's always, I don't think we have, one meeting where we weren't on the fence about something or walking the line of something, where it's like, well, if you look at any time you, binary is interesting, right. Because anytime, it's either, or you're attempting to exclude, right. It's like, from the very beginning you're just trying to create, an atmosphere of balance where, I've always been, as a documentarian, I've always been drawn to stories that are not being told. What's interesting now with sort of the, the amount of content that is online and, in social media and everything, there's kind of an over-saturation, right. But it's sort of like, you've got films that are being told, or if they're, if they are being told, do they have the platform where they are reaching the audience that should be reached to really have an impact to make change if that's what's necessary.
[Taylor]: And so with this program, it's like one film at a time here. We're just trying to change the narrative, I think, and I think we're really off to a good start. I remember in the beginning we really wanted, I was, really adamant about, I didn't want to feel like anyone with any kind of disability was excluded, how can people that are blind be a part of this. How can people that, can't hear be a part of this. I wanted everyone to be able to enjoy films. I was speaking to someone and they were telling me about, Doctor Dre and how, well, the DJ, not the other Dr. Dre, but how he,
[Juliet]: Has recently, gone blind and he's a huge cinephile. And so he, he loves films and he's trying to figure out how can I still be able to watch films. And that made me, say like, we need to be able to describe ourselves. Like, I feel like we're leaving. I don't want to leave anyone behind and feel left out. I know what it was like to be at a film festival and feel included as a filmmaker, as a woman of color, but then still feel like I'm invisible because of my disability, because there's a space that I still can't quite fit into. And so I felt like
[Taylor]: Well, yeah, and yeah, yeah,
[Juliet]: I guess that where all we leaving anyone out, like, are we doing anything that left someone out. And so I wanted to really try to make that even across the board. And I think we still have a long way to go and I want to learn as much as I can. So that next year we do include anyone. If we left anyone out, I really tried not to.
[Taylor]: Going off what you're saying, that that's such a great point Juliet of light that space that you don't quite fit into. Yeah. That space is sort of what we're trying to create actually. Yeah. But all of those people that feel like they don't quite fit into that space, as best as we can, and just as has been said earlier as well, we still have a lot to learn. That's always going to be the case, we can always get better. We can always, learn more about representation and misrepresentation in, communities where, creators have visible and invisible disabilities and how we come to interact with that and checking our own narrative about, what it means to be able to do and to not do something. And so I think that, yeah, just, just, there was just a beautifully how you put that, that space that you, thats space is everything. And so if we can kind of collaborate on that space and share that space where we don't really feel like, yeah.
[Juliet]: And we're all still learning, even as someone with a disability, we don't, we're still learning. Like, I feel like Gabe was learning so much about us. I was learning so much about Gabe and Steve. We're all learning about what, cause we're not, we're not a monolith. It's not just across the board disability that, little picture of, a symbol of a wheelchair. It's not everyone yet. It, it, they tried to just put us all in that box and we all have, very specific needs. So I really wanted to be able to have an open mind and open dialogue to everyone and everything that fits under the sun of disability. I mean, Steve Way, he told us, not too long ago, Doug, we were talking about film festivals and, somebody had said something like, well, when you went to one, he's like, what are you talking about? I've never been to one. I can't go, I guess, it's, to me, it's too much, you know what I mean? I can't, I can't do the whole thing and to go, and the and so he was like, yeah, that's another reason. This is just so cool because, being able to go, for Steve was, it's just, it's really powerful.
[Doug]: I brought this up oftentimes and cause it's something that I'm constantly learning about and exploring, but there's this saying that I've heard often echoed by a lot of people, that accessibility is for everyone. And the reason I love that so much is because I think there's so many different levels to that, in both literal and figurative ways, but the one that's coming up for me today that I'm like going to try to explore a little bit more through the lens of this conversation is that. Why do we, why do we love film in the first place? Like film of certain, we, of course we watch stories by ourselves at home on Netflix or whatever all the time, but I think the it's storytelling, the real power of it is that shared experience. Whether we're literally in a theater together or know that like, Oh my God, like I love this show so much. And I know all these other people are watching it too. And I can talk to my friend about it, or I can like go on some blog and read about other people's perspective on it. It's about the way in which it connects us through the topics that it explores through the interesting window into worlds we've never seen. And that's such a richer experience both individually and collectively when everyone can be a part of it, not just in the experience of it, but in the storytelling side of it. So like, it really does benefit all of us and in a way that, like, I think sometimes we might lose sight of, because, sometimes we have our blinders on and are just kind of not thinking about people outside of our experience and maybe not considering it in those ways, but like we, in that sense, we literally all each and every one of us benefit from everyone being able to be a part of it.
[Doug]: And that's, to me what I find so compelling about storytelling and why I wanted to do it in the first place. And I think ultimately, I think it's that I think of the, it's a really bad analogy. I was about to do the, the Twilight zone episode where the guys, the last person on earth and he's has all the books in his glasses. So it's actually not really that app, but it's actually, reading's a very isolated, isolating experience, but with storytelling is very different. It's something that like, it's so much better when it's shared and that's so much a part of why it's like lights us up.
[Taylor]: Yeah, exactly. And I think too, that there's something about, the stories we tell each other and the stories we tell ourselves are a way that we can make sense of the world. It's a way that we can build some kind of narrative and how we fall into own lives, and what it means to experience something together and to, I mean, it's really, it's really interesting, right? Because there's something where we're experiencing this together and we're all in separate rooms. It's just sort of the, the irony of everything, is it, isn't lost on us. A friend of mine last night was, was actually talking about your film, Feeling Through Doug. And she's like, I mean, I mean, how do you, I mean, how would they have told? She's like, no, you have to figure out a way because I'm not going to give any spoiler, but you have to figure out a way to communicate. In the best way that you can. And sometimes during that can change the trajectory of a life, right. As your film symbol shows us, and, filmmaking is all about making the impossible possible. There's always these waste stories about behind the scenes of how they got the shot or how they created this one scene. And I don't know any filmmaker that would look at the opportunity to have a differently abled person and not see that obstacle as an opportunity to create something, create this creative magic.
[Doug]: I mean, I totally second that Juliet and I think so much about, it is the challenges, obstacles, things to figure out whatever way you want to label them, that make stories special, because that's like, ultimately, like what is a story reflecting, but some sort of some, not just a reflection of life, but some, some challenge or obstacle to move through that is the vessel to derive lessons and, and wisdoms from. So like when that's, that's always going to be part of the experience of making it as well. So why shy away from it? Why not embrace it and have it be something that serves the ultimate thing that you're putting out in the world that is because like what, what just from the actual finished product, what story's going to be good, that doesn't deal with massive challenges and obstacles and things to figure out and work your way through. That is what makes it a compelling watch. And that is always the process of making a film too. So why, when filmmaking is always hard anyway, why, why put, like, why say, well, this kind of difficult or op difficulty or obstacle is not one that we want to undertake. We only want it, like it's so ever through the lens of that, anything's hard and difficult about filmmaking. Like, if you look at any one part of it, it's all hard.
[Taylor]: Oh, it was easy to make. I had no problems. Like, I've never heard that, but I think there's also something that like with this, going, this concept of like going virtual and, and being together, but apart, and not really the human experience and the interaction, that's always going to be, pretty special. And so sometimes I think also in the last months, you, whether it's technology and trying to figure out, okay, how are we going to get these films uploaded? And they're all going to be on this platform and this, there's always these little stories in our days, if we're vigilant enough to really see them, they can sometimes sort of poke fun at, either how serious we're taking something.
[Taylor]: I was doing this thing was Steve View, amazing director, amazing director, but, this week, and we're doing this thing for Unstoppable and I'm shooting it on the Sony and we're doing it. And I sit down to send it to him. Internet's too slow. He can't get it. So we're like, well, what do you want to do about that? He's like, you're not gonna believe this. It'd be faster if you overnighted it to me. So I go to FedEx and I overnight the SD card. And then when I come back to try one more time to upload, it says access denied. So then I'm right back to the question of accessibility, right. And all the different ways that we're constantly kind of experiencing it. But my first thought is, how would I, how would I show this in a film? I think that that's also as filmmakers and as writers and photographers and all the different things is that it's, it's always already a story. It's just, we land into it. And you know what's great about Steve too, I think he embodies that openness and acceptance a challenge because we had an issues with filming me as well. And he just felt so cool as a cucumber. And he's like, yeah, you know what, don't worry about it today. We'll do it tomorrow. I'm going to mail you this. You're going to get it. And then call me when you get it. And I'm like, well, we only have today. He's like, don't worry about it. I mean, like, he's never been like, well, and didn't like anything that happened, the printer wouldn't work. The, the lighting didn't work, the sound stopped working on the camera all was, then it was just, it ran the gamut and he was just, so it almost made you go like, Oh my God, is this, is this going to happen?
[Taylor]: Are we going to be able to get this in time? So even when Taylor told her story about having to run to FedEx, so like, it's, it's this, it's this Steve you way. He's just like, yeah. Because it also echoes that the thing that is a word that we touched so much about with the Unstoppable program and, story and making stories is that, the concept of patients. So that's been, that's just interesting. That's been a huge anchor of how many times people want to rush in and get the story and then they leave. But to really sit with a story or with an experience and take the time necessary to find out how people are living, how, how are people living over there? How are people dying over there? What, what, you know what I mean? None of, none of that can be done in a fast way. No, I think that, that goes to, Doug, you, spend a lot of time working on, Feeling Through when you, I remember you sharing that with me, when you got introduced with the Helen Keller Services, you didn't get involved with them and then, okay, let me get that from you. And then I'm going to, it became a year's worth of relationships and building trust.
[Doug]: And again, relating back to our conversation from a little while ago, the whole thing is all the better for that real genuine collaboration. And it really wouldn't have been possible or certainly wouldn't be what it is without that. So it's, and it also, moreover has really impacted my life in a really meaningful way that in a really beautiful and deep way changes the trajectory of my life for the rest of my life. And on that note with like the last couple of minutes we have here, I'd love to get like a minute or so from both of you on this, but maybe Taylor starting with you. And again, the 60 second version, cause I'm sure we could do a whole episode about this, but what, how has this experience, particularly with this year Slamdance and through the lens of Unstoppable changed you?
[Taylor]: This is, this has been one of the, the, this project and being a part of this is the, one of the great honors of my life. I mean, I say that a hundred percent, and it's some of the most important work that I've ever done, my understanding of visible and invisible disabilities, what I thought I knew it changes every day. I'm learning from Juliet all the time. I'm learning from Asha, from Steve, from Chris, from Gabriel, like, I think if you're, present in your life and you're able to relook at the way that you've been viewing yourself and others and, and what it means when, when you see someone and the way that they're represented, It has to be, you have to be present and vulnerable to be able to tell the story in the way that I feel like the story wants to be told. So for me, one of the, the major things that, that I would say that has changed is the, Jason DaSilva was, having him, sorta as a mentor, Juliet and I worked with him a lot and Crystal Emery, KR Liu, Crystal Lopez. Even learning from you, Doug, and, your process, by having these experiences and by changing the way that we view what it means to be able to do something and not be able to do something. I think there's no way to do that without, looking at the way that we, we create stories in our minds about the world we live in and sort of the biases we have, or that we don't have, and other people that do.
[Taylor]: And just sort of like, yeah, it's, I mean, I don't even know that if that was like an answer, but it's something that's just kind of, it's ongoing. It's an ongoing change and as it should be, it's not something that's like fixed or you change it once and then, I mean, I'm learning, I'm learning. I mean, I, I promise you, I, I learned something today that when I woke up, I didn't know, just since waking up, and it's just being able to just show up, I think, and, and just to be a part of this and collaborate, instead of about the competition, it, it's gotta be focused on the collaboration, right. And on that
[Doug]: Note, Juliet, I'd love if you could bring us home here at the last minute we have, andwhatever you'd like to share about your experience through this and, or, what you're looking forward to and, or anything about Slamdance , the, this, the, uh, the floor is yours.
[Taylor]: Slamdance and creating Unstoppable has shown me how fearless I am and how much, how fearless I need to be going forward in all aspects of my life that asking and speaking up and using your voice, not just for yourself, but for others ends up just bringing it right back to you. I'm a better filmmaker today because I stopped focusing on me and focused on helping other filmmakers.
[Doug]: That's so beautiful, such a great way to, to wrap up today's conversation. And again, thank you so, so much Juliet and Taylor for joining us today, it's truly an honor to, to connect with you both. It's been such a, one of the real joys of my festival filmmaker experience in getting to work with the people that make up Slamdance, who are such an amazing team and so willing to collaborate and, have that real shared experience. It's been an honor. And Taylor, maybe if you could just tell everyone one more time, where they can, where they can check out the festival.
[Taylor]: Absolutely. You can check out everything, everything, every film, every panel, every, every everything, at watch dot.Slamdance.com, you can also check it out. We got Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Firestick, we have some amazing, amazing panels as well. So the first one, the first Unstoppable panel will be Valentine's day. And it's with Kristen Lopez of Indie Wire, and it's called Real Love to Real Love. And, it's epic. I mean, each of these panels is like, they're amazing. So please come check it out. It's 10 bucks. And help help be a part of this, this community and, and share your support, it's, it's awesome. And I know that the filmmakers are. You won't leave the same that's for sure.
[Doug]: I love that. And again, go to Slamdance.com. You can get your tickets there. There's no reason not to it's 10 bucks to amazing content. Thank you again and looking forward to Slamdance. I know I'll be diving in there shortly as well, so really excited about it. Thank you for all, all of you who joined us today, we'll be back with another episode next week and until then have a wonderful weekend. Thanks everyone.
[Taylor]: Thank you, Doug. And Erin and Jamie and Helen Keller Services. Bye Juliet.