[Doug]: Welcome to episode 40 of Feeling Through Live. I am so excited to be joined today by Sue Ruzenski, who is the CEO of Helen Keller Services who is a producer on Feeling Through, and also just one of my favorite humans. So it's just like a trifecta there. So, so it's just, it's kind of the best of all the worlds. And before we hop into things, just want to start off with a quick image description. So on the screen on the top left corner, you'll see Feeling Through Live Episode 40, a 40 Plus Year Journey at Helen Keller Services as the title of the episode. My box says Doug Roland Feeling Through underneath it. I am a white male in my mid thirties, little bit of scruff on my face, short dark hair, and over my one shoulder, you see a little bit of my living room and over the other, a wall with a picture on it, we have an interpreter box in the top right corner of the screen, and then under Sue you see Sue Ruzenski Helen Keller services, and Sue, why don't you take away your image description.
[Sue]: Sure. Hello everyone. So I'm a middle-aged sort of 60 year old white female. I have blonde hair about shoulder length. I have a pair of red rimmed glasses on, and I'm wearing a black turtleneck and a black jacket. And my background is also solid black. Nice to be here.
[Doug]: Great, well, Sue, I know when just getting the chance to get to know you so well over the last few years and working with you. I think a commonality that we find is we both believe in a healthy degree of serendipity and I think something that's so, just to kind of kick things off something that's so serendipitous about the timing of our conversation is that we've been going back and forth on this for many months to get you on here and coordinate schedules, but it just so happens that our timing couldn't be better. Because as of, I believe the top of this week, you had some exciting news in that you are now officially the CEO of Helen Keller Services. Prior to that, you were act as the, you were the Acting CEO. So first off, congratulations on that.
[Sue]: Well, thanks so much. Yes. I'm very excited to be given this opportunity to serve in this role with the organization. So it's been a really exciting week, and I'm really just happy that it took place. Yeah.
[Doug]: And the reason that's such a fun way to kick things off is because you, as CEO of Helen Keller Services is quite literally about a 40 year journey to that position. We were talking about this earlier in the week, but I love when I hear of people having such long journeys with an organization and community. And I can only imagine all the stories along the way. I think it's something that has maybe is a little different for people in my generation or even younger than me, that really kind of bounce around to a lot of different things in different places to really have a life at a place and really kind of have your evolution, your personal evolution in many ways, being informed by and happen alongside your professional evolution at one place. So I'd love to just go back to the beginning here and, can you just tell us how your journey started with the organization?
[Sue]: Sure, I'd be happy to share it. It was quite a bit of time ago, as you said, 40 years plus. And I have to say that I think this career found me and I didn't really find it in a way, and it's not that fascinating a story, honestly. I had already had spent some time in this field, and really had an interest in teaching and I was working with a group of students who had vision loss and also additional disabilities. And I actually was working in a program and one of my good friends, I was actually dating this person. He's an audiologist. And he said that I should check out the Helen Keller National Center. He was doing an internship at that time and I thought, well, I don't think I've ever met anyone who is DeafBlind. I don't know what I could contribute, he just sort of encouraged me well, gee, I'd like you to just go there and check it out. And it happened, there was an opening for a Residence Supervisor at the time. And I went for an interview and I was hard on the spot and I worked, I think two days later in the position. And that time we had our staff who were a part of our residential program live on campus. So I was fortunate. I had this beautiful apartment in sands point in the, in the residence building. And I was just immersed into the community, into the environment and I felt immediately a connection with everyone. I think part of it is being there, living there 24-7 I hadn't yet learned sign language. So it was really through my interactions every day with people who were very good to me and helping me learn. And it just became for me very meaningful, and it stuck with me throughout these four years. So it's just been a blessing in many ways for me to be part of seeing Helen Keller services and this division Helen Keller national center, how it has grown, how it has progressed, how the field has gotten much, much better at what we have learned through the years and, and to be a part of that with so many people it has really been a very positive experience and now to be here in this position, leading the organization, what could be better. So it's just a good thing,
[Doug]: Just to go back to that moment of like day one with the organization, I mean, could you have ever imagined that it would, it would be such a large part of your life for, for such for so long? Did you have that kind of indication? You said that you pretty, it sounds like pretty early on, it was something that you realized that it was work that was really meaningful to you, but I mean, did you have any indication that it's kind of like where you would spend your career?
[Sue]: Early on? I definitely felt an affinity for the work, but I never dreamed that I would spend all these years throughout my life. And as you said, you go through changes every, the cycle of life. I mean, I've gone through many things from being a mother to a grandmother or through all my educational experiences, while I was there, I got my master's and my doctorate. So it it's been, it's been just an evolution in my life, but a big part of it. So no, I would not have imagined it, but then as time went on it became almost, it's just part of my nature, I guess, in a way I did not have any desire to do anything different, which to some people, they would be curious about that and think, well, you're kind of stuck, you might need to like open up your horizons, but the, the positions I've had and the people I've worked with and the, the students, the consumers, the community, it's been a great journey and it's never been something that has been where I felt like I wasn't growing with learning where just being involved and participating in something positive.
[Doug]: Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with it being very early on, very apparently to you meaningful work. And I think when, when, when, when there's a real meaning and purpose to the work that you're doing, I don't think you can ever really feel like you're like stuck somewhere, right. Because it's there it, and one of the things that I've learned so much about in getting to work alongside for the last three years through, first meeting through Feeling Through and working together to make that happen in the right way, and now working with the organization on a regular basis. That meaning for you is still very, very clearly present. And it's very inspiring for me, it's something that I know that really I admire so much about you and it's something that really pushes me to delve deeper into the work that I'm doing, because I see that. I see, I know about how much you've put into the work that you do, what, and how much it still means to you after all these years and being a part of it. And that it's a really infectious, beautifully infectious thing, which is also why I think you make such a great leader. Can we talk a little bit just going back still, you'd mentioned I think some students that you were working with who are disabled, have you had any real personal connection to, um, you'd mentioned that you'd never met anyone who was deaf blind, but to the disability community in any way w ma family or anyone in your immediate circle prior to working with the organization?
[Sue]: Honestly, no. Within my family I do recall as a child neighbor's that had a disability that I wasn't really friends with, but had acquaintance with, I think what was the most- One defining moment for me, was when I was in, this is early in school and I was a Liberal Arts, you know, studying and not really sure what direction I wanted to be in. Prior to that, I had, actually, when I graduated high school, I worked for an insurance company in Manhattan and I knew right away that was not where I needed to be. So I was thankful that I made a decision to end that career early on and go back to school. And during that time, I volunteered at a school for children who had autism and I worked with a teacher and he was just, I thought he was like the moon. He worked with these children in such a way that really was effective. And I knew then that I wanted to join that profession. So I think that person who took the time and I was young, um, but took the time to include me and mentor and be a part of that classroom. I think that was a very important experience for me. So I always remembered that. And I always to remember the importance of opening up doors for people. I think that throughout my career, I have met so many wonderful humans, as you say, who have opened those doors or who have stood next to me and kind of shine the light, like, okay, over there, or just taking time to really be role models or just share, in what they learn and what they do. And that's, that's been a real blessing.
[Doug]: You mentioned that over your tenure at Helen Keller Services, there's been a lot of positive growth and changes over the years. I mean, you started working there prior to the ADA. There's obviously been a lot of changes in this world around disability as a whole. Can you talk a little bit more specifically through the lens of having worked with the, with the DeafBlind community for so long? What maybe are the kind of most notable changes or evolution that you've seen in that space over your time with the community?
[Sue]: Sure, so we're going back now to the 1970s. So we didn't know a great deal, but we were determined to learn. And there have been many people who went through those years with me. I recall that I totally admire, and we thought we knew what we were doing, but we, we didn't. During that time, there was also a great number of individuals coming from different parts of the country who had been institutionalized for no other reason, but the fact that they were DeafBlind and they had really had a life experience that had been so limited and their education was limited. And so when they came to New York, it was very disoriented. They didn't maybe have a formal language, or it was very basic. And their life experience was just, they didn't have the concepts of things like working in the community or the experiences of just being a part of the community so many years. There were many individuals where we were just supporting them to, to define who they were and, and, and their preferred way of life, and then work with their home communities to develop opportunities where they could live and have a quality of life that was integrated where people could learn how to communicate with them and that they had choices available. That was one segment of the group of people, that we served. And of course we know the diversity among individuals who are DeafBlind, but in those early years, some of the folks that we met on campus fell into that group. So when you thought back then, in terms of what was special about Helen Keller National Center, you had a group of people that were trying to figure it out together, but believe it or not, there wasn't yet understanding of what there should be. So the way that we defined work options for people was very, very limited and was just this repetitive type of very sedentary, unexciting work, being out in the community, the big idea of going shopping and having breakfast in a diner like these were new experiences for people in the beginning. So we see a change of how we, we shifted from this way of viewing people and, and what's important to them. Making sure that that quality of life was present and for quite some time, the mindset was really more driven by a system and not by the people who need the services. So you kind of follow these ways of doing things and you really needed to stop and question, and look at it through a different lens through the shoes of the person and develop services that were more person-centered. And there would be people who couldn't communicate because they had never learned symbolic language. And they may have very idiosyncratic or these behaviors to express themselves because that is really truly way that they could communicate. And that was always viewed in a not so positive light. And so, Oh, this person, they should go back because they don't really fit in. They're not able to, just assimilate in the way that they should. But really they just desired to have more understanding of what was happening. And there was one gentleman, and I know the people that were a part of this will know exactly who I'm talking about, but he changed us completely because, he basically refused to comply with what we thought were the things that needed to happen. And it made many of us step and question how to approach our services. And we w we just, we, we changed things and really followed his lead. And he had certain things that he really enjoyed believe it or not, he, he enjoyed shoes. That was one thing that he was fascinated with. And we were able to get him a job in a shoe store. I mean, so we started to actually start thinking out of the box and then work became very community-based. And that was, that was an important switch. It's like, what is the person enjoy doing? Where are their talents? Where are those hidden passions, let's get them involved in things that matter to them. And that was a big, that was a big shift. I think technology would be by you other area where it was about how technology really changed things for people in giving them access to information, and giving them independence, giving them away to connect with others. That was, that was a big lift for everyone, but certainly for the community. And that, that changed a lot of our services as well. That's just a little slice of things. It's hard to-
[Doug]: No, sure. I mean there's, obviously anytime you're trying to sum up such a large topic over such a long period of time, but I think what you pick picked and choose to talk about there really illuminated a lot of things for me, particularly when you're talking about really learning to think outside of the box and really think more of the, really start to pioneer a new sense of how you dealing with the community, how you were relating to the community and how you were supporting the community. And it sounds like the common theme there was that really seeing them as the people they were and how you could support that more, because I think what I've learned, again the last few years for me have been a real masterclass, not just in getting to learn about the deaf blind community and obviously the community, a large part of my day-to-day life, but also just learn more about the evolution of the, how people with disabilities have been perceived in this country. And you know I think something that you started working at Helen Keller Services at a time, again, prior to the ADA, at a time where a lot of people with disabilities were seen as like subhuman in a lot of ways, or that there was just something unsalvageable about them. And I'm using these terms that are really offensive purposefully cause that's that there were a lot of perspectives around that. A lot of these footage of people with disabilities living like animals and being treated like such, if you go back prior to the ADA or unfortunately in certain places, probably not that long ago or maybe even today. And I think that that just relates to in a lot of ways, the erroneous perceptions and ways in which people were trying to relate to people with disabilities assuming, well, because they're not like me, or because I can't find a way to communicate with them. That means there's something wrong with them. That means they, maybe they can't even be fixed or those kinds of things. And to really start to pioneer this other sense of not only trying to assimilate people to this, like the general public, but really support who these individuals are, what they're interested in and try to like best place that feels like, I'm sure you could, you could write a novel on that journey there.
[Sue]: Well there's an expression someone had shared with me a while back about the golden rule of course, but there's rarely a platinum rule. And so it's really not about treating people the way you would want to be treated, but treating people the way they want to be treated. So really trying to understand that perspective of the person is really the essence of that. And I think that's one thing that through time we've gotten better at, but it's not even that now it's more about the community's strength and leadership for themselves and their voices being prominent in anything that is done, and anything that is our directions and where we are today. And I think that we've come a long way in that regard and there's so many incredible people that are supporting that. So
[Doug]: On that note, perfect, time to cut to a question here that's kind of related. And the question is, what do you see in the future for client prompted services? What are clients demanding? What do they say they need?
[Sue]: Okay. So I'm thinking in terms of the community, there's, there's individual like individual needs that people bring that we try to create new experiences and new, for example, employment opportunities for individuals as a community at large, I think it's really, what they desire should be, what is what we, what we pay attention to, so that there's inclusion in anything that's done. We're a national program working with people who are DeafBlind, we're a local program working with individuals who are blind, visually impaired. We need to have representation in the organization of the communities that we work with. And they need to be a big part of how we design the services that we commit to.
[Doug]: One of the things that I've got, I've gotten the opportunity to go to the Helen Keller national center in port Washington, Long Island, a number of times. And it's an amazing campus. You have there, there's the ability for people who are Deaf-Blind from all around the country to live there for quite a number of months, sometimes to learn, to take a lot of different classes and a lot of different independent living skills learned there. Is that something that w is that something that had always been done at the National Center, or was that something that, as far as those kinds of programs, or was that something that was added over time or what was the evolution that as far as that's concerned?
[Sue]: So for from the very beginning where that campus was really established 1976 other locations before that, and really the birth of services that were funded by the federal government was through a grant of Helen Keller Services, which at that time was called the industrial home for the blind. And there were leaders pioneers really that had gone to Congress, had gone to the government and said, we have nothing for people who are DeafBlind, and you need to help us build it. And they were funded to do that, and it just grew and it grew, and it grew. And then the government donated this land in the beautiful area of sands point. It has its pluses and minuses. So the services that have been developed over the years, they taken on all kinds of shapes and sizes and focuses and priorities. It's really been an evolution. And I could tell you like programs that have been there and gone and new ones that have come through and what's important, but it's a constant, the energy there is really what keeps you going because as a national program, the Helen Keller national center needs to lead in, in terms of what's progressive what's best practice. How can we really improve the lives and work with people in the community. So I think it's always been a great place there there's lots happening all the time. When you asked the question earlier about what does the community want? Well, some people don't want to come on living in residents on a campus. That kind of a little when you look at models, that's not a very modern model for service delivery. And we've recognized that, and we've gotten very hard, we've been trying to really create options with our partners across the country, in VR, to be able to offer services more locally in the community with our community services programs, with our deaf blind specialists, youth service coordinators, and then working with other, other entities, our affiliates are, to build and elevate their services to provide assistance, whatever way we can so that there are more options for people. So it's not a one size fits all. And it was that way for too long.
[Doug]: And on the note of Helen Keller National Center and Helen Keller Services really needing to be a leader when you started there. How many, if any other organizations were there like, I guess specifically Helen Keller National Center, dealing with the DeafBlind population and how many, if any, are there that are like HKNC now.
[Sue]: Yeah. So it's really the only national program that is so comprehensive so that you have, you have all of these disciplines, it's a multi-disciplined program under one roof where people can come spend a period of time and get the menu of services that we offer that's integrated. And is it big team approach? I don't think you'll find that anywhere. I think that there are services, absolutely, and we have many partners that we work with who work every day with people who are DeafBlind, but I don't know if they have the extensive ability in terms of the array of services that we can offer. So we're fortunate that the federal government has supported us in that regard.
[Doug]: I want to follow up on that, but I'm going to take a quick pause for an interpreter switch. All right. Continuing here. Great. So what I found that really interesting when I started to learn more about HKNC and realized that it was really unique in a lot of ways, and being kind of like one of the only entities on a national level that does what it does. And not to say that there aren't like tons and tons of other DeafBlind organizations throughout the country. But I just thought that was interesting, particularly when I learned more about how many people are included in the DeafBlind community. Can you speak a little bit to, because I think this is something for those who've never heard these numbers before, it might be a surprise as how, as to how many people are people like consider people who are DeafBlind, or part of the Deaf blind community. Can you speak to what that number is, and also given the scope of that number, where you see, or where you hope services to evolve into in the future moving forward?
[Sue]: Sure. It's really difficult to give a definitive number of people who are comprised as community. But we've tried using the American community survey to identify people who have both a vision and a hearing loss, I mean, that's, those are the two questions that are asked. So that's where this kind of information comes from. But we estimate that there are 2.4 million people who have a combined vision hearing loss in the United States. And we only know a fraction of those people. He cause many people don't consider themselves to be part of that community. They wouldn't identify that way, but they could probably benefit in some regard with our services. So when we think about the community, of course, we're thinking about a very diverse group of people. It's not maybe what some might think of a person who's Blind, who's fully Deaf and Blind. In fact, that's a small number of people in the overall group, but people who were born into the deaf culture and may lose vision later in life, people who are Blind and then they lose their hearing, people who have age-related vision, hearing loss, I mean the array of conditions that cause vision loss. So it's, it's just a group that is so diverse. I think including with that, people might identify sometimes is they think of the one primary sensory loss that they have. So they may identify as that it's really a personal journey and preference how someone might think of themselves and what their identities. But there's more people probably than most of us think.
[Doug]: Yeah. I know from again, working with you in the organization on a regular basis and getting to, work alongside a lot of people there that you have a lot of colleagues who are DeafBlind, I'm wondering if over the course of your tenure there, or just as of your time with the organization, are there certain people maybe even early on in the journey as you were getting to know the community more who were deaf blind that you saw as like a mentor or some sort of, kind of figure that really helped you gain a more personal and intimate understanding of at least one aspect of a person who is DeafBlind and get to know them by extension, get to know that community a little better. Is there anyone that anyone or any ones that kind of stands out?
[Sue]: So quite a number of people that just came to mind as you were speaking, some are no longer with us. There was a gentleman that worked at Helen Keller, and he was very open about life and he was someone who had through, it was really an illness that he had a medication that at middle age, he lost his vision and hearing, and he had to just transform his life. And he became a teacher at the center, but he was a good friend. And, certainly opened my eyes to many things by just knowing him. There was a gentleman who was the president of the American association for the DeafBlind. Harry Anderson, many people know him, who has passed, but he was part of our advisory board for many, many years. And I always enjoyed after the meetings to spend time with Harry and just hang out and learn from him tremendous generosity of spirit, always. And just those experiences. I think being together with people like that really helped me in my own journey. I'm thinking of another gentleman who I wish you could have met Doug, and he could be on this show with us. His name was Bob Smithdis and he was one of our directors for many years. And he had buried his wife who was a braille teacher at the center, but Bob was a formidable soul. He was a mover and shaker. He was part of that original group who went to the government to really advocate with Peter salmon for services or for individuals who are DeafBlind. And he had the best sense of humor that anyone had. He just had a way of brightening everyone's day, and was with us in these services for many, many years. But there's many people like that. So I don't know, I could go on.
[Doug]: Well kind of on a related note, and again, I'm not going to hold you just whatever kind of comes up first, but if you could kind of whittle down some, all that you've learned and experienced over your time working at Helen Keller Services and Helen Keller National Center and with the communities that they serve, are there certain, you talked about the platinum rule, I know being one, are there other kind of like wisdoms or lessons that you've learned that really have informed you personally along that journey?
[Sue]: Hmm. I think it's really like a privilege and to always know, it's a privilege to be able to work alongside people who bring to you their being life, they're with you for a period of time. And to just respect that. Like following the lead of, of the person and always just being receptive and trying to, help support them in their discovery of what, what, what, what needs to happen here, designing their own services, and bringing and resource and being a support. And I think always part of the, whether it's in anything, but there's a piece of like support, and then there's this other piece that's like challenged, you have to challenge people. I need to be challenged. Everyone needs to be challenged. You know? So getting moving on things, you have to present those types of things in a way that can maybe give people an opportunity to look at something differently. I've always been amazed and about the lives that people had and they've, they've shared those stories with me. And that's a privilege, but then you learn from those stories. So you can take in what other people have experienced and reflect on it and connected to your own, your own know journey in many ways, it's a rich, it's a rich career. I have to say. Yeah.
[Doug]: Well, I know that it's been some- I can definitely in my, obviously not quite as long journey, but in the last few years of, both Helen Keller Services and the National Center and the communities that they serve, being such a large part of my life, it's certainly informed me in ways that will forever change me moving forward and, and really attributed some of the most beautiful moments of my life so far. So I can, I can second that and maybe, maybe another 30, some odd years from now, I'll have a little bit more to say on it, but so far definitely
[Sue]: That's great.
[Doug]: And I know we've had gotten a chance to mention this in other formats, but just while I have you here, I think it's a great opportunity for you to also just simply explain who count Helen Keller Services is the relationship between Helen Keller Services and the national center. And just kind of explain that for maybe anyone who's coming to both HKS and HKNC for the first time and kind of wondering their relationship and your relationship to both.
[Sue]: Yes. Okay. Sure. Thanks. So the umbrella organizations, Helen Keller Services, and that's now my role to be involved with both divisions of Helen Keller Services. We have Helen Keller national center, which we've been talking about, but also Helen Keller Services for the Blind. And there's really some distinction between the two. Helen Keller Services for the Blind is a New York based program. And we have locations in Brooklyn, we're headquarters is, but also Hempsted on Long Island Islandia and is another town where we have a building location, but there's also many community-based services that are available. And the services are for individuals who are Blind and have vision loss. So we have services beginning with preschoolers at the school in Brooklyn. So beginning in a very early age, all the way through, teens and youth to working age adults to seniors. So it's a really vast array of services that are available, like there's a summer camp for children ages 5 to 15, which is just an enormous, program for, for youth there's programs for youth that are supporting them to become ready once they graduate what's next after high school and exploring, the world of work. There are programs for seniors in their homes to support them, to gain skills and learn some adaptive ways of doing things around the home so that they can maintain their independence. And then there's a big vocational piece similar to Helen Keller national center around looking at developing skills and being successful in a career and providing other training that would support a person, whether it be orientation and mobility, communication, braille for example, is one thing that we're actually going to work on, in providing social work teams counseling through, through COVID. I mean, these face-to-face services that are local here have been able to continue, which has been a real, a real plus for the members of this community.
[Doug]: And let's talk about that for a moment, how this year, last year has been distinctly different before I do that, just to mention one thing as you were talking through all the different services that Helen Keller Services, Helen Keller Services for the Blind and Helen Keller National center provide in that you clearly were making a nod to something that Nancy writes a comment about, which is she, she asked, see, it says, please mention that deaf blind is all ages. And obviously, Helen Keller Services works with all ages that just wanted to make that connection in the comments and what you were just talking about with the services
[Sue]: Well with Helen Keller Services for the Blind, the preschool has children who may have both a vision hearing loss, but it's really a school for children with disabilities. And including children who are blind to have vision loss for Helen Keller national center, right now we're, we're kind of set up to work with youth. So beginning at the age of 16 and then onward, where actually most of the children are still in school and received services locally. So the services offered by Helen Helen National Center and have been primarily for an older group.
[Doug]: And so let's, let's talk a little bit about how this last year has been a little different. Obviously everyone's has their own story about that, but I think it's been really an interesting time to be someone like you. Who's not just in a leadership position of an organization, but an organization that deals with many individuals who rely largely on touch during a time where touch is not something that we can do in an organization that really has for a long time relied on that in-person training and connection. What is this time been like for Helen Keller Services? And what ways in which is as it forced you to change?
[Sue]: Yeah, it's been a challenging time for sure. And we miss having the opportunity to work with people from around the country of Helen Keller National Center, and also have limits to what we can do in the community. But I have to say it's been a growing period too, for us, it has been an insightful time when it comes to thinking differently and sometimes when you start to think differently, it gets thinking differently. Like you just keep thinking differently and it grows, and I think that the teams across the board have really begun to look at things sort of in ways that they couldn't maybe see before as possible. So we've grown in our way of knowing that there's a lot more that can be done in a remote way, virtual platforms using technology, connecting with people and providing training and there are things that we never would have expected we could be successful with, and that people would actually feel like they had benefited, and that it was successful for them. So I think that has taught us a lot about the future in terms of making assumptions about what's possible, but that's a general theme, but then knowing that people can not always come to New York from across the country, there are pockets of services everywhere, but there's things that we can offer folks in a rural community or in a different way. So we've expanded our options, which I think is really positive. And then we've connected people from around the country who may have never connected through groups, in technology, peer learning groups, things like that, which has been very, very positive.
[Doug]: I love that out of all the challenges that the last year has certainly presented that it also in the pressure that it, that it innately creates to have to change how things have been done for awhile. It also creates these new, these new ways of doing things that you, that you're saying can continue to benefit the organization and the people that the organization serves well beyond the pandemic and, and the specific limitations of a pandemic. So it's really exciting. I'm wondering if over the course of your journey with the organization, has there been any one year that's forced you to have to like innovate more than this past one?
[Sue]: Absolutely. No, it was truly from necessity, when Helen Keller National Center had a suspended campus services, it was really like, we never could dream of anything like that ever happening. That was just not even something we could imagine and what would we do and how would we still be able to partner and support people and provide our services. So people got to work really quickly and really started, we learned as we, as we went basically. But it was really a terrific, I was in many ways positive. I have to say. I mean, but we can't wait so we can get everyone back, and still have a vibrant community in person at the, at the center. We certainly miss that.
[Doug]: And I think I forgot exactly how long, but when, when you first had to close the doors, that that was the first time in many, many years that that had happened. Is that correct?
[Sue]: It has never happened. Never happened. So as long as never, that's never happened. Yeah. So the same for the Helen Keller Services for the Blind, just to have to stop, they did exactly the, the teams on that side, you, the, that division, they did the same exact thing. And then luckily as time went on the phases that we had in New York, we were able to resume face-to-face service services in the community. We're in many locations around the country that has not yet occurred where virtual training is still the primary way, but here in New York locally, we have a community program. And there's various programs at Helen Keller Services for the Blind and one at Helen Keller National Center that people are going out meeting people in their homes using of course every precaution and safety protocol, but successfully providing services.
[Doug]: And speaking of thinking outside of the box, I think I've had the opportunity to talk about this in spots over the course of various episodes of Feeling Through Live or other things that we've done, but I'd love to spend some time talking about your involvement with Feeling Through, and just from my personal side of things before we hear from you, I think this is a great opportunity to acknowledge and to give you so much credit for thinking outside of the box with Feeling Through, because prior to us partnering on this project to make it, by far, much better than it could have been without, and really probably couldn't have really even happened without the support of Helen Keller. It's something that you, nor the organization that have had ever experienced before. And I did speak to some other organizations who were interested in what I was doing, but not willing to think outside of the box like you did with this. So first and foremost, thank you for that because again, we wouldn't have been able to make what we did without having the support, both resources wise, but more importantly, education-wise from Helen Keller Services from the DeafBlind community. That's the extension of the DeafBlind community. That's a part of Helen Keller Services community, the supervisors there, and staff and students there who played such a big part in the education and the authenticity of the film and the way in which we've also had the opportunity to work together, to make it an accessible event that that can be experienced by anyone. So huge. Thank you to you and the organization on that. But I'm also just wondering from your point of view, what this process has been like for you to be not only to be a producer on a film and to have that film experience, what has that been like for you?
[Sue]: Tremendously rewarding. And I just want to congratulate you Doug on where you've taken this film and just the film itself is a work of art and surely your genius mind that created it. It's, a terrific film. So being able to be a part of something that is so fantastic, and, and then seeing where this film has opened up people's minds and just has created a great, it's just a masterpiece in terms of raising awareness around the community. Certainly you've given us some credit here that has helped us with our ability to be known by people in terms of our services. And that's a nice thing, but it's really, you've changed so much the conversation, I think maybe in the film industry to some degree you've, you've really opened up, I think your colleagues minds about what's possible and in terms of authenticity having a person who's DeafBlind, i.e., the CoStar of this film, and then you put together this other masterpiece, which was the documentary, which kind of showed that this is how you do it.
It's not a big deal, you could, I could do it. I mean, you really illustrated your work and, and how it can be done. And I think that in any way that we can move it forward in terms of people getting it, stop this barriers and thinking that it can't be done, it can be done. And it's as if for us making sure that people have opportunities around employment that really are commensurate with their preferences, their aspirations, their talents, so look at Robert discovering this beautiful talent that he has. And that's what he preferred to do, but for all employers to look at this and say, you know what, there's a person with these challenges that could really support my company and make it stronger and outperform and bring in so many innovative ideas. And it's just another link. And then other than that, this global thing around the film that Isabel, all of us, and it's all about giving people a minute in time to get to know who they are and respecting our differences and, and appreciating one another for who we are. Because that's what that, what else is there? Like it's just, it's just a beautiful story. And it, it opens that part of our art and our spirit. And so for us this has been just a pleasure and thank you for that.
[Doug]: Thank you. I'm wondering why do you think it's important for people who are DeafBlind to be represented in film and storytelling, and also to have the opportunity to, to portray those roles? Why is that important?
[Sue]: I think film has a very powerful way of influencing us and we don't maybe really even get it sometimes, but the mainstream media, it influences us. And so what, what do we consider when we think of our community? If we don't see people who are from a different culture or are, have a different ability, we don't, we don't, we don't think about them. We don't include them and it's not natural. It's fake. It's not, it's not a positive thing. So we all should be included. We should all be represented in every industry, but film is very powerful. And it just seems to have that ability to open people up. You get that touch point with something in a film. You never forget it, it stays with you, just like a regular. So if I can't have the experience of meeting someone, who's DeafBlind, I'm going to remember that film where I sort of an actor who was DeafBlind, and that's my point of reference. And hopefully that will be a jumping off point for me to do something more than just watch the film, but maybe something else.
[Doug]: And for anyone who might come to this who works at an organization, whether it be DeafBlind related, or for any really marginalized community, but let's stay within the disability community for now, knowing that particularly within the disability community, there's such a need for more representation on screen. And that there's such a disproportionate representation of characters who are disabled appearing on our screen screens in proportion to how many people actually make up the world that we live in, who that have disabilities for anyone who might come to this, who works in an organization for people disabilities of any kind who maybe hasn't had the opportunity to be a part of storytelling in some way, what advice might you have for them around working with storytellers or incorporating storytelling into what they do?
[Sue]: That's a great question, I think storytelling in any form has such a impactful way of grabbing people's attention and, and helping them to understand, so it's one thing to rattle off a bunch of facts about something it's very different, if there's a story that a person can connect with, so I guess you had a story Doug, and that's probably what worked I think about that now. When we first met there was something about the way you presented your story about meeting Artemio back then, and when you were seven, eight, nine years ago now, but just how you were so interested and how this had grabbed you, and I guess, meeting someone like you, if someone were to approach another organization, to know the person, to some degree about what their intentions are, and yours were, were really just about telling the story that you had, but really the idea of casting, someone who is DeafBlind was definitely a part of that. And that was an important piece to you and then meeting you and then spending time you coming to New York, being immersed in, at the center and meeting with all the staff and the people that were there participating in our programs and how you just absorbed it all. And so you would true blue throughout the entire thing. It was, it was just this feeling that this is going to be something amazing. And I think that we should not be fearful of taking some of these risks, sometimes it's always about, well, wait, how's it going to impact our image? Or what, what is it going to mean? But if we don't, if we don't try, if we don't like give it a shot and we miss, we could've, we could've missed this completely. We could've just missed it, you know? And so you were very easy to just embrace it with because you were, we're so committed, I think, to bring things to light in certain way that was authentic and real to the community and very respectful. And so I don't know, I would say to any organization, if they are fortunate enough to connect with someone like to role in bed, and by all means they should partner and work together.
[Doug]: And speaking of almost missing this, again, there's been so many people that I owe so much gratitude to who have helped this journey from start to everything that we've been able to do through now. But I really do want to give you a specific recognition for being that person who really championed it and greenlit it within the organization in a way that quite frankly, we wouldn't have been able to do so much of this without, and to again, thinking outside of the box, which again is why I was so thrilled. Like I know a lot of people were to see the news at the top of the week that you'd been named CEO, because I think quite honestly, you possess the key skills that are so important to leadership, which is being a great person, really caring about the work that you do in the people you work with and for, and thinking outside of the box and exp and exploring things that are different from what you've done so that you can grow into new spaces and do new things. So I know I'm super thankful for everything, not just that you've done for Feeling Through, but to know that the organization is in good hands moving forward with someone like you. So huge, huge, huge, thank you for that. And I'm just, I guess, in our closing moments here, I'm wondering just on the last note, if there, if there's anything you'd like to share before we sign off for today,
[Sue]: That I think you're too kind, honestly. And I just want to say that I'm just very fortunate because I'm surrounded by a lot of great people and it's just an amazing organization. And I look to continuing the journey and working with everyone, it's just been really, really terrific. And I think that's it.
[Doug]: Great note to end the week on here and Sue, I obviously have roped you into several conversations so far, but I'm going to definitely twist your arm to come back here at some point, but I'm so glad to have you on today. I didn't get to mention all the amazing comments during this live stream of how much they appreciate you and how happy they are for you. So just want to acknowledge that as well. And for all of you who haven't seen Feeling Through yet, which Sue is a Producer on, and one of the key reasons why it exists in the world, we are within two short weeks, we're at like 360,000 views online. You can go to feelingthrough.com to find that. And yeah, we're really excited. I'm just so thankful to be able to work with you on a daily basis and very excited for where things will take us. So thank you so much, Sue, and thank you to everyone who tuned in. We appreciate it. And we'll, we'll see you again next week. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Bye everyone. Bye bye.