[Lauren]: Before we get going, I would like to do a visual description of myself. I am a black Mexican woman with Brown skin, black hair that is up in a bun, gold hoop earrings. And I have a pink sweater. I think that's enough. Before we go around, I would really like to talk about this panel as a whole. We are going to be discussing the importance and the benefit of collaboration and how people can grow from this experience. As I said, as an actor who happens to be Deaf, who happens to be mixed race black and Mexican, who happens to be under represented. Now, I think as the time that the industry, particularly the film industry and Hollywood take a moment and have a moment. Perhaps it's happening because of COVID-19 perhaps it's happening because of the political climate to date. But now we have the moment to pause and to think about what we see on the big screen. Representation is critical now more than ever, both in TV and in film. What is the importance of these mediums for people to be able to learn about people other than themselves, to learn about other cultures or to see people we wouldn't typically. So now when we talk about Hollywood and the inclusion of this globally, there needs to be more representation of people who are outside of the margins, if you will. So with that, we come up with this topic of where do we begin? How does this process start? And what does it look like? What resources do we need? And so I hope that we'll expand upon that throughout this discussion today, I am thrilled to be the moderator and to start with Doug. So Doug, if you could start with a visual description of yourself, please,
[Doug]: This is Doug speaking. Thank you very much, Lauren. It's really an honor to have you moderating our discussion today. I am a white male in my mid thirties, dark short hair, little scruff on my face. I'm wearing a blue jacket with a lighter of darker blue jacket with a lighter blue button up shirt. And yeah, really, really excited to be able to be engaging in this discussion with all of you today.
[Lauren]: Great. Thank you so much. I'd like to give the floor to Sue for a visual description.
[Sue]: Hello everyone. This is Sue Ruzenski. I am a middle-aged a female in my sixties. We shall say I have blonde hair, shoulder length, black glasses, and I'm wearing a black turtleneck and it's great to be here. Thank you.
[Lauren]: Thank you, Sue. Marlee. Would you mind?
[Marlee]: Hi, I'm Marlee, thank you for doing this Lauren, it means the world to me and to the rest of us here. I am a white female, middle aged with blonde hair. It's not my natural color, but I have blonde hair and I'm wearing a dark blue velvet jacket with a brown shirt and a pin pendant representing the sign for, I love you.
[Lauren]: Oh, we have something in common then because I have my, I love you pendant on as well.
[Jack]: That's great.
[Lauren]: That must be the theme of today. Jack, as Marlee's partner, please.
[Jack]: I'm Jack Jason and I am a middle aged man with graying hair and little round glasses that sit on the bridge of my nose. I am wearing a black sweater with a white shirt and t-shirt underneath.
[Lauren]: Great. Thank you, Jack. Robert, I'd like to give the floor to you to give a visual description of yourself.
[Robert]: Hi everybody, my name is Robert. I'm also shortish kind of balding hair a little bit also on that grayish white side and wearing a purple colored t-shirt, I'm also middle aged 55 and that's it. That's who I am. Awesome and handsome I might add. And finally, Steven,
[Steven]: Hi everyone. My name is Steven Prescott. I am in my late twenties. I have box braids falling down. I have a white turtleneck and a clear quartz earring in my left ear. Black male. Did I say that?
[Lauren]: Great. I think I got everybody. So now I would like to just talk about really how we got here in the first place. I think Doug, if you could give a brief description of the project, how it came to fruition and what inspired you.
[Doug]: Sure, well I'll start off by saying as a filmmaker and as a storyteller, we hope to be gifted with stories that not only move us, but allow us to move other people. And I can certainly say that Feeling Through and its origins have been a true gift for me to it. It's a really, it's a 10-year journey that I'll summarize very quickly for the sake of this panel. But, again, it starts 10 years ago when I was living in New York city where I'm from, I was coming home late one night and very similar to what you see in the film. I saw a man standing on a street corner, holding a sign that said I'm Deaf and Blind and need help crossing the street. And though Feeling Through is a fictionalized version of that story, a lot of the main story beats that you see in the film are something that I shared with this man Artemio, named similarly to Artie, the character in the film where we ended up spending quite a while together, sitting and waiting for a bus to come. Again, we also communicated by me tracing one letter at a time on his palm, him writing back to me in a note pad. And I think that the experience really stuck with me because when I initially saw Artemio standing on the street, I saw him for his DeafBlindness in the sense that the real resonant thing was, Oh, wow, this is the first DeafBlind person I've ever met, which certainly was notable. But I came away from that interaction thinking to myself, Oh my, this is my new friend, Artemio, who I felt like I had made a really heartfelt connection with, as I got to know him as this charismatic, charming, funny, insightful guy. And it really opened up a whole new world for me. Obviously starting with writing Feeling Through, and then it was one of those stories that at the time that I wrote it, I didn't feel like I was ready to make it quite in the way that I wanted to. So it lived on my computer for a number of years until I just had that burning feeling that it was time. I ended up reaching out to, Sue was one of the first people I connected with, at the time at Helen Keller National Center. She's now the acting CEO of the parent organization, Helen Keller Services. And I basically just said, Hey, look, I have this story that includes a DeafBlind character that I want to be played by a DeafBlind actor. And I'd love to collaborate with your organization to do it in the best possible way. And I'm still so thankful to this day for Sue really thinking outside of the box and being open to something that was very new for the organization. And I think just to kind of get things going with this spirit of collaboration, one of the key things of collaboration is that it takes two sides to come together.
[Doug]: So I could have all the will and desire to do this alongside the community, but it really took in this case Sue, really seeing value in this idea and really wanting to walk down this road with me in order to really make it happen in the way that ultimately it needed to happen to make it the best version of itself. So that was kind of like a very, very quick summation of a 10 year journey to actually collaborate, make the film, and then also work with Helen Keller Services throughout the process to not only cast Robert, who obviously does an amazing job in the film, but also to create fully accessible screening events so that we can share it with the DeafBlind community, the Deaf community, Blind community, low vision communities, so that they could all experience it as well. So, that was that's kind of a really quick summation of a long journey.
[Lauren]: Wow, I mean, just think about that, the impact of just meeting somebody on the street and where it is led today and the team and the community and the beauty of representation and collaboration. I really think that again, it's amazing that all of you have been involved with this project and really have created those links and have not let it go by the wayside and have continued it. And I'm seeing something, a bigger picture in it. It is beautiful. Doug, this might be a simple question, but why did you go ahead and cast a DeafBlind actor? Why not just find someone who is hearing who could play the role?
[Doug]: You know, that's a great question. And for me to be quite honest, it was a complete just instinctual decision. It occurred to me the first time that I was talking about it on the phone to the individual who ended up directing me towards the Helen Keller National Center. Actually funny story about that. I was sitting in a coffee shop in Los Angeles, when the overwhelming feeling hit me that I needed to make the movie right now. And before my conscious mind kicked in, I Googled DeafBlind organization called literally the first number that came up on Google. And before I even knew I was calling, someone picks up the phone and I just start talking and saying, I have this film, I want to cast a DeafBlind actor. What do I do? And it literally came out of me before I thought about it, quite honestly, and to this day, I'm really glad that that's what my instinct was, because quite honestly, at the time, I didn't know so much about what authentic casting was. I mean, of course I knew literally what it was, but I did not know anything about the culture of, of that. I didn't know anything about the fact that it's something that is extremely underdone in Hollywood and is really problematic. It was an instinct for me, but I'm so glad it was because now over the last three years, not have not only have I learned so much about the importance of casting roles authentically in short, because there are a lot of talented actors with disabilities out there who historically have not gotten opportunities to be part of this storytelling that I've now learned so much about that. And I've really been fortunate to be able to use the platform of Feeling Through, to try to do our part to further that, but fortunately it was an instinct of mine. And, and I think that that gut feeling that kicked in at the very start of this process,
[Lauren]: Sue, speaking to that, when Doug first reached out to you, did you have any reservations concerns or did you just jump ahead with the collaboration? What did you think like was this sort of the gatekeeper to protecting the community? What were your initial thoughts when you first spoke with Doug?
[Sue]: This is Sue. I did have some concerns. It was just a call that I had never received in all the years that I've worked with Helen Keller National Center hearing from a filmmaker and just wondering, what are his true intentions? And would he produce a film that would be representative of the community? Would he understand the culture? And if we associated with him, would it be a positive or could it actually be a negative? So I did have some concerns, and just, it's interesting, we talk about open mind and this process of being inclusive of people who are of any on the margin, as you said, so here I am, working in an organization and think about my closed-mindedness initially when he contacted me to say, Ooh, I don't know if that's possible. So I think that it really was a learning process for me as well.
[Lauren]: So one disability advocate, her name is Mia Mingus. She's coined the term Access Intimacy. And that concept is really interesting to me because the concept is that there are many people with disabilities who instinctually feel they can , that connection. So that term Access Intimacy, and what that means is that connection between two people, one person who does not have a disability, that person who just instinctively gets it, who can be with that person and just provide that emphasis automatically. So Access Intimacy, it doesn't mean anything that's romantic or something that's built with family. It can be with two complete strangers who just instantly click in that moment of access. And so that really is the bottom line of someone who gets it. So Sue, when you first connected with Doug, did you feel that this was a guy who could potentially get it and, what was that, did that impact your thought process and your impression of Doug initially?
[Sue]: This is Sue yes, absolutely. So after having heard from Doug through the phone call, I had an opportunity to go to the West coast and we had a meeting in a hotel lobby and he was there with his producers, his team, and I was with several of our staff and he just began to tell the story of his encounter with Artemio in Manhattan. And there was that access intimacy, and the way he spoke about that evening and his interaction with that gentlemen that inspired him for this story. It was clear. I knew it in my gut instantly that he was the real thing and that this was going to be something really amazing and that we had such a opportunity ahead of us. And I just, it just started to, the momentum has been going and going, but that initial meeting really, I did have that sense, that, that feeling.
[Lauren]: So can you imagine now, when we talk about the industry and the creative people who were in this industry, providing authentic storytelling and representation, because often it is well intentioned, but what sometimes happens is when you talk about, offering this person or tokenism, Oh, here's a DeafBlind actor. Marlee, I think this is a question for you specifically, honestly, and Jack perhaps, but how can you as a director, encourage writers who know nothing about the community of people with specific or general disabilities, particularly in this case, DeafBlindness, how do we better really prepare them for authentic representation of people without minimizing their experience.
[Marlee]: This is Jack interpreting from Marlee. Thank you for that question. I think it's important to approach the subject because, having been in the industry for 35 years, I have had the opportunity to see so many perspectives and variety of responses of how people need to understand or look at the Deaf and Disabled community. People who have absolutely no clue. People who may not understand that there's Deaf culture, that there's DeafBlind culture, and that there is a disabled community out there at the same time, they are eager to make films about us. However, the first thing I always say to them, if I'm approached, they'll say, I want to make a movie about you. And the first thing I'll ask is what do about my culture? That's the first thing I'll ask, at the same time, you would hope that that person, whether you were talking about a filmmaker or screenwriter or an actor, would have had the chance to do their homework, would have had a chance to collaborate with people who represent the community authentically or organizations. for example, in this case, the Helen Keller Center, that's why I'm always thrilled, for example, and to have heard the story with Doug telling us that he reached out to you, Sue, because that's the best decision he could have made, is to start at square one. And I mean, how can he have made a film and while casting authentically a character, telling a story authentically without having collaborated with Helen Keller Center, you couldn't have told the story more authentically. So that's fortunate that he did that for the first step, in terms of my experience in Hollywood. It has been a wild ride and an interesting one at the same time . A lot of positives and some negatives. And yet I plowed through and learned as I was going along. And I learned, and I communicated and I learned, and I worked and I learned, and I struggled.
[Marlee]: And one good example is when I did Children of a Lesser God which, I received the Oscar for, I was extremely grateful for the opportunity and can say that it was well deserved. And it was a performance that should have been recognized because it was authentically played 30 years ago. And they cast me authentically 30 years ago. Paramount did that, but the irony is, is that the next day, and reading some of the comments, two well-known critics, one said, well, it was Rex Reed. Actually I can say his name, said Marlee Matlin, she won out of pity. She got a pity vote. And at the same time, she's a Deaf woman playing a Deaf character. So how is that considered acting? What is authenticity about
[Jack]: It was not within, I mean, it wasn't even within his Periscope, he didn't see anything, and we can see how much things have changed since then. And now we're talking about collaboration, we're talking about greater attention to people who are Disabled or Deaf. We're talking about working with the community, but the key word here is collaboration and that's what's happening today and authenticity. Oh, and another thing a reviewer said that it was New York Magazine said that as a Deaf actress, I would never work again in Hollywood. And I think I've proved them wrong.
[Sue]: Yet, I'm still working.
[Lauren]: Thank you, exactly. So in terms of Children of a Lesser God, and being authentic as that character, and that playwright was written by Mark Medoff and he was an outsider, he immersed himself in that community, in that culture.
[Marlee]: This is Jack speaking for Marlee, yes. I have to interrupt because he was good friends with Phyllis Frelich who was cast and he cast his friend. He wrote the play for her.
[Lauren]: Yes. And thank you for mentioning that and pointing it out. So yes, Mark immersed himself in the community. And again, analogous with Doug, Marlee spoke of doing your homework. And I think that really includes research and finding resources and organizations, and also really immersing yourself in that community. So, Doug, did you do that and what has that experience been like for you and what have you learned?
[Doug]: Yeah, immersion was key to this process and it's actually such a great word to use because it was really about, again, one of the great things about partnering with Helen Keller Services and Helen Keller National Center is, I had direct access to not just a lot of people in the community, but a lot of people who also worked alongside the community. So that meant flying from LA to New York, specifically Long Island in Port Washington, where the Helen Keller National Center is based quite often to go up there, to meet with lots of students there who were DeafBlind, to meet with some of the staff there who are DeafBlind to meet with a lot of the instructors there who work with the community day in and day out to sit in on just other happenings up there and observe. And that was absolutely key because there's nothing that can replace actually interacting with connecting with, and building meaningful relationships with the community. I think that's key too, because in this case, and again, it was so fortunate that we all hit it off. So well, I mean, Sue is someone that I still talk to on a weekly basis. Sometimes multiple times a day. I try not to bother her too much. She's very busy, but really forming meaningful relationships with Sue and many people in the DeafBlind community. And getting to know them as friends. I think that was huge because there was such a long period of time between connecting with Sue and actually shooting the film that I had an opportunity to really make friends with people in the community. Chris Woodfill who's the Associate Executive Director at Helen Keller National Center who really was the driving force in helping cast Robert.
[Doug]: He's DeafBlind as well, and he was someone that I spoke with on a very regular basis as well, and became friends with him before we even shot the film. So ultimately I think, as a storyteller, my job is to really from a heart space, not a head space from a heart and spirit space, understand the story I'm telling him and the people that make up that story and do that justice. And that was that was most beautifully facilitated by actually making heartfelt connections with individuals in the community. So the immersion was absolutely key and I wouldn't have wanted to do it at any other way. And I'm so glad for the collaboration with Helen Keller Services, to be able to actually have the access and opportunities to be able to have that immersion.
[Lauren]: And so far we've talked about collaboration between the director and the organization HKNC being the organization. And now I'm wondering in terms of collaboration between the director and the actor or actors in this film, Robert and Steven, your chemistry on film, was so real. Throughout the film, and I think it really speaks to that access intimacy that I spoke of earlier, because it's so evident. Your characters just instantly connected to some degree, but then built upon that. So I'm wondering like behind the scenes, as actors starting, with both Robert and Steven, how did the two of you connect? How did you work together?
[Steven]: Yes, Doug, he brought me with him to Helen Keller and soon as I met Robert, Robert was so enthusiastic and just this amazing guy and meeting him, it was just inspiring meeting him, and knowing all the things that he does offset, it was just like, wow.
[Steven]: Cause I had these preconceived notions about the Blind and Deaf community, and then us clicking together, like offset. It was like, that was the most important part for me. During our breaks, we sat together, ate together, even when it was times, it was kind of chaotic around us, and, I could see sometimes like the frustration sometimes that could that I saw what Robert was going through onset sometimes. I remember it was one time he was on set and it was like really cold. And Robert was like, we could still do this. Like, those were like moments that was like, yo, if he could do this, I could do this. It would just like bonded and thank full for the interpreters as well as Ilissa, Angela and Erin, and more as well. They were the ones I actually, like, I was learning as I go, how we should work together. And ways to go about it on set and offset, but even without them around, I think we just always had the chemistry from since we first met. And I think that's why it showed on screen.
[Lauren]: And Robert, do you want to add?
[Robert]: This is a Robert speaking. I remember when we first got into the room together and we actually started doing print on palm and writing back and forth. And that was our very first introduction and meeting where we just naturally started communicating on our own. And we had that natural, just, connection that we had, there was some explaining of how to work with one another, but really I have to say our relationship working together was just perfect. I don't know any other way to describe it, but it was just a beautiful connection that we had naturally. And I remember watching it on screen for the first time and seeing how it came across on screen. And I was so impressed by that. And what I loved about it the most is that we were able to show the world it doesn't matter if you have a disability or not, hearing, DeafBlind, you can still have that connection and that friendship.
[Steven]: That was well said. Exactly, I mean, when you think about this, you and Steven are different and Steven's an experienced actor. You are a first time actor,
[Lauren]: right? This is your first experience.
[Robert]: Yes, it is. I had never acted before. When I was in school, I did participate in the drama club and I was involved in some theater then, but for a movie and really acting, Feeling Through was the first time ever that I was able to make my dreams come true. And I remember it sitting there being like, Oh my it's me on the screen, that's me. This is real. This really has happened. And I just can't believe I've made it and how amazing this film came out and how inspiring it is and that we can show the world that we all are equals.
[Lauren]: Yes, it's really important when you talk about that. When I had my relationship with my director, Kenny Leon, when we were doing Children of a Lesser God, I really did rely on that trust and that collaboration and that process, that I had to trust him as the director. So I'm wondering for you, Robert, did you have that kind of relationship with Doug? Did that happen easily, to take his direction in terms of what you needed to do as an actor, again, not knowing your experiences?
[Robert]: Of course yet from the start, when it first opened, when I first met Doug, we figured out our own way to communicate. Of course, in the very beginning, there were some awkward moments, but there was a learning curve that we've just learned together. And then when it came to acting and him giving me feedback, really, it was just a beautiful relationship.
[Robert]: And we had a great working relationship and it was just so inspiring and, really being able to open up the door and show the world that DeafBlind actors do have skills and we can do it. And having Doug given me this opportunity, it was just everything about it was amazing.
[Lauren]: So admittedly, when I first watched the film, when I was watching, Feeling Through, I thought a little bit, I was like, I hope this is not going to be another film about an able-bodied person, helping a person with a disability, because I'm just tired of seeing that. But I was so amazed and thrilled to see this was more about the dance of helping each other, of two individuals helping one another and how they really went through that process together. And I think we do need to see that today. Marlee?
[Marlee]: And this is Jack speaking from Marlee. That's exactly how I felt. I've been on the lookout for stories, films, screenplays, whether they had Deaf or Disabled characters or DeafBlind characters. But more importantly was, as you said, I wanted the stories. It didn't delve into heavy exposition. I wanted to find that the person, the character, whether we're talking about Deaf or Disabled person, is the means to which you tell the story and you don't instead have to go on an extended monologue. When I was five years old, I did this and I did that and I did this and I did that. And I became Deaf. When you have a character, a diverse character like this, they embodied the exposition. That's why I love documentaries because you see a real story. You don't have to tell in words about what's going on here. And the same thing is when it does, when you're talking about feature films, we need to be able to create characters that tell you the story. We don't have to dwell on dialogue or monologues, or talk about how did I become disabled because that's not the story. That's just words and
[Marlee]: actors who are deaf, perhaps in the background. It's a great thing, but I think I'd like to be able to see films where Deaf, DeafBlind, People with disabilities come to the forefront of a film. I think it's time for that. I know that Jack would love to be able to talk about this when it comes to stories.
[Jack]: I'm going to speak, I can sign, but I don't want to confuse this screen with too many signers. I've worked with Marlee for 30, 35 years, looking for stories, looking for projects that suit one of those desires, you just said to tell stories authentically. And a lot of times we're offered films where it may be. And at one time it was the case that Marlee played characters that were about the struggle about being Deaf and having to explain where it was and why she got to that point. But I think as we've all evolved, we are now seeking out stories that tell are told authentically. That's why we always look for real stories. That's why Marlee and I are working on several other stories that have to do with real characters that happened to be deaf. But we also like to find ways to incorporate characters who happen to be Deaf or Disabled into stories that are just told generally either become on a greater level, more interesting because the characters definitely example Marlee and the West Wing, meeting with Aaron Sorkin, he just decided, and they clicked, as you said, the word that you used this access intimacy, I start right away between the two of them. And the next thing you know, in a day, he had a story where Marlee plays a polester and no one would ever think of that, but because they connected somehow.
[Jack]: And when you see that polester you're walking on the screen, you think, Oh gosh, she's Deaf. And there's a whole story you create in your mind, but she doesn't have to talk about just let it be, just let it play out. And that's, what's so great about this film too, is that you see the story play out naturally, realistically, but there is a heart to this story at the same time. It's because they used authentic representations and they told a good story. And I always say at the end of the day, it's a great story that you can tell it, put in the elements into it, and you have even a better story.
[Marlee]: This is Jack speaking for Marlee, and that's why Feeling Through works. That's why it works. Absolutely works from beginning to end all the way. And thank you, Doug. And thank you to everyone who was involved in this beautiful production of Feeling Through. I mean, we need more of a films like this. We need to be able to see more screen representations like this. Thank you for that.
[Lauren]: Yep. Yes. Thank you Marlee for that. I really do want to shift back to Steven and when you talk about this story, it was created by a hearing white man, here you are Steven, a black man. How do you feel about your representation within the story? Do you feel that you were your authentic self?
[Steven]: I did. I did. I felt like what Tareek was going through, it was universal. And I feel like representation like that is important to get authentic representation because there are young people that need to see themselves in every shape and form. And I feel like that's very important how Hollywood continues to cast and get that representation in films. So yeah, I did feel like myself, that wasn't actually the first time that I played a role that wasn't written for a black male. I actually played a role one time for this guy, his name was Gavin O'Connor and he was a kid from Boston. So I things like that I feel like it's as universal and important to be told authentically.
[Jack]: Lauren?
[Lauren]: Sure, Jack.
[Jack]: When looking out for projects for Marlee, it's important to realize that in Hollywood, the number of Deaf and Disabled writers directors, producers is about this actively working in front the camera. So when telling stories obviously, I don't have a lot of choices, but at the same time and Marlee will back me up on this is that we are more and more encouraging participation to encourage writers who are Deaf, to encourage the opportunity for people who want to be directors to, work with a hearing director. And the movie that Marlee just did, CODA. They extensively incorporated what are called DASLs, Deaf Artistic Sign Language advisers , community members, the same as you did here with Helen Keller in telling a story that Marlee is doing a true story of a person in history, we are now using a Deaf writer out of England to create the script. Another story we just told a couple of days ago to Marlee's producer on Quantico, sing a Deaf writer who worked on the show. So it's always important to understand, it would be great if we could have a Deaf director or Disabled director, it would be great if we could have a Deaf writer, it would be great. If we could have a Deaf crew at the same time, we have to deal with the reality. So the best way to deal with that is collaboration, as this is, this is all about. And when we finally get to the point that there is equal representation by directors, by writers, but on all levels then great. But for now it's about collaboration. And I think sometimes that criticism is misplaced.
[Jack]: when they say, well, you don't have a Deaf director, you don't have a Deaf writer. Well, we're trying the best we can. There are people who want to be in those positions. We'll incorporate them into our productions and we'll move forward together, collaborating just like they did on Feeling Through, just like they did on CODA, just like you doing on whatever it is. But the old days of somebody who just goes, Oh, I want to write a story about somebody who's deaf. Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here it is. Let's film it. Oh yeah. There's a couple of actors out there who are deaf. No, that might've been true, whatever back then. But now it's all about collaborating.
[Steven]: And Feeling Through shows that it works.
[Lauren]: Oh yes, it does. Collaboration is really an easily solved problem. If you do your research, if you do your homework, if you immerse yourself and just a little bit of changing your framework, your mindset. So my experience in the industry, when you talk to those creatives, be aware because they need to think about what they need to do and what support they need. But often they forget about their role in this process, the directors, the writers often forget that they do need support and resources as well. So often when I think about myself as an actor, the burden is on myself to educate them about an advocate for. It's exhausting, honestly, as an actor to do that in addition to acting. So when you bring that back to Doug now, what kind of resources and when I that specifically people or roles that benefited you as the director throughout making this film?
[Doug]: Well, yeah, I mean, again, the resources really specifically were coming up to Helen Keller National Center, meeting with the different departments there. I met with the mobility department to learn about how people who are DeafBlind, different ways in which they navigate the world. In addition to talking to the community about that. I obviously met with and got to know the interpreting team so that I could do everything that I could as someone who does not yet is not yet proficient in ASL to communicate in the best way I could to help facilitate the best communication. But I want to also address in both collaborating with Robert and Steven and on to Steven, what you were just saying too, something that's really important is, I don't treat what I've written as the gospel. We will be on set having a conversation and I'll encourage Steven to make changes that he feels might fit that moment as well. So it's something to where I have a healthy regard for what I don't know, or what is not my experience. And that's where part of the collaboration comes in is, when you cast the right actors and hire the right people, part of that, is it being people that you can trust as collaborators and whose opinions and thoughts and feelings about something that you want to be a part of the finished product. So there were a lot of times with Steven where we would have side conversations and he would be giving his thoughts on things. And there's certain parts of the film, particularly the first couple minutes of it that were heavily improvised as well, all the scenes with him and his friends where it was more just about me cultivating an atmosphere for them to kind of hang out in, and also like obviously giving them indications about who each one of their characters were specifically. But I love that aspect too. I think as someone who has in myself was an acting background as well, and, the actors on this panel can probably attest to this. I think it's really frustrating when a director treats an actor like a puppet and is like, basically feeling like they're just pull ing the strings and telling them exactly, and, that's the last thing I want to do. For me, it's like, Hey, look, we have this blueprint, but how can we come together to make it better? And how can you bring in what you know better than me to make the total product, the finished product better than the sum of its parts. So that's really integral into how I work and collaborate as a director.
[Jack]: This is Jack speaking. The opposite of collaboration is fear. And so much of the business that I've seen as a result of working with Marlee is about people who were afraid, either about they're afraid of money, or they're afraid of success or whatever, or they're afraid of just change. And when you get to a set and they say, this is the gospel, as you just described, this is it no collaboration, especially when you're talking with people who are diverse, they don't consult. And now I'm speaking for Marlee.
[Marlee]: They think accessibility costs money and, lights, cost money.
[Jack]: Makeup costs money, costumes cost money, disability, deafness, diversity, collaboration is just part of the equation too. And these people with these old mindsets, oh sorry for signing, these people with these old mindsets have to get rid of them. And we're fortunate to have people like Doug. We're fortunate to have so many people out there wanting to make movies who are not afraid and who are willing to collaborate. If the person is themselves not making the film and let's let's work together, that's all it is. And now Jack speaking for Marlee.
[Marlee]: And for providing voices for ourselves, for us, we have voices. And if we all work together, and everybody has their own voice, and we all need to respect each other's voice.
[Lauren]: Exactly. Robert, I have a question for you, and I'm going back to working with Doug as your director. My understanding is that you are not completely blind, but your character is fully blind. How was that experience for you? And how did you come to terms with, okay, I'm going to portray a completely blind person and how did Doug support you?
[Robert]: This is Robert speaking. Well, definitely talked about it. That character Artie was fully blind, and I'm legally blind and low vision, but I'm not fully blind yet. So Doug and I have really consulted about this. And we talked about little nuances of, I understand where the cameras are going to be. Again, I can't see them from my sides, but we talked about the setup on what when we were filming it itself. But I have to say reflecting on it. It was such a great experience for myself. It was a great weekend overall. And just putting myself in artists shoes, really feeling what it would be like to be fully blind and DeafBlind. I am DeafBlind, I'm deaf and legally blind, but it was a great experience for me. And that it was nice to kind of put myself in that person's shoes. But Doug and I really talked about it a lot about how I would act out this role to make sure I represented that character very well, but I have to say the end product really came out beautiful.
[Robert]: It's interesting, and when you think about what I really want to point out for today, for people who are listening and watching what Robert's saying, really, I think he just exemplified that the DeafBlind community is not homogeneous. It's, it's really heterogeneous. There aren't one type of DeafBlind person. There isn't one type of hearing loss that people have a variety of vision and hearing loss, even myself as a deaf person, I'm completely sighted. And our experiences are very different. So when we watch the film, I found myself inspired and crying and thinking about all of these emotions at the same time about, how does it feel for a DeafBlind person to watch this as an audience member? So I'm wondering how definitely people have responded to you and the film. I think the DeafBlind community and blind individuals who wanted to see the movie finally have access. We provide it through tactile interpreters, or you have individuals that have low vision or maybe tunnel vision that sit further back. And so they, a lot of times, right now, this industry is geared towards hearing sighted individuals, but in the real world, there's a diverse world out there. It's not just a world of hearing sighted people. There's so many other people that are there that want to be able to enjoy the exact same things. And so I don't know why at times that we feel a little bit segregated, but we should all just be grouped together, work together, understand one another. And it's interesting that there are so many people that may have never met another DeafBlind person before or a deaf person before. But if you do encounter somebody, go up to them, try and communicate with them. You will find that they're more than their disability. You will be inspired by them. And I hope that this movie really does that. It really will inspire people and kind of make people realize that we're all human first and foremost, and that we all can do the same things. We are all equal, just because we may have other challenges. We still can do it. We can succeed.
[Steven]: Yeah, if I could piggyback on that, I just find it like I do kind of find it weird that people that are creative, how could you not find a way to communicate and break past those barriers? You know what I mean? Like when we were on set, we found ways, how we, when it's action I tap Robert on the shoulder, things like that, like it's ways to get creative. Like, so how could you be someone who calls himself, like, I'm creative and you're not able to like, see passed those things. It's just weird to me in a way that people could think that way.
[Jack]: And this is Jack speaking for Marlee.
[Marlee]: That's why it's important to ask questions, ask questions. It's as simple as that.
[Robert]: And that's why I was so happy to see this and to see the supporting film, the documentary, Connecting the Dots, because that shows the story behind the scenes. And I really felt that was really proof and inspiring and even more impactful. In addition to the film.
[Steven]: I connected more with Robert, then I connected with a lot of actors.
[Lauren]: Really through all of you, I know that you're aware, when we've had this discussion about why this film, Oh, I miss something. I'm sorry, Steven, can you say that one more time?
[Steven]: I was able to connect with Robert better than I connected with a lot of the actors on different sets, so it works.
[Robert]: Thank you. We were a great team and we understood each other. And again, we we had positive attitudes going to an awesome team.
[Lauren]: I'm really fascinated about this. And what's really fascinating about this story is the importance of touch, human connection, legitimately. Robert?
[Robert]: And this is Robert speaking, I really just wish that we had more of an understanding of the world, and really that the hearing world understood that deaf and DeafBlind world, instead of just being like, Oh, they can't do this. Or they can't do that. Or, no, welcome us into your world. You know, we have brothers and sisters in children that are also hearing or deaf, DeafBlind.
[Steven]: Yes, and I was,
[Lauren]: You mentioned that when you think about the language, I didn't think about that in the movie, I didn't think about of that in terms of the story about how you were communicating through touch and tapping. Interestingly was that part of the story? I mean, the touch that you talked about, how did you set that up? That you had mentioned Steven?
[Steven]: Yeah. It was just a whole collaborative idea. You know what I mean? Everyone was just saying, like, we just figured out ways, like how to go about it. I threw an idea. It was all like, Oh yeah. I let them know, on this shoulder, it's cut. Or like, you know what I mean? It was ways to communicate, and we definitely like communicated on so many levels. It was a beautiful experience for myself. Cause like, I was learning as I was going, coming in. I used to think about that. I never met anyone who was deaf and blind before. So I did, I was a bit ignorant to how, what is the life for it for someone who's deaf and blind. And that's why, so when I met Robert, it was inspiring me. And then it just knocked all that ignorant nonsense out of the park. So it was a learning experience for me. And and I'm thankful for that, and I thank Robert for that as well and the Helen Keller entire community.
[Lauren]: Great. Okay, so I know we're running out of time and I would like to start the wrap up by asking a question for each person. What kind of advice do you have for people who have a position similar to yourself? When we look at Steven as an actor, what kind of advice do you have for other actors who maybe find themselves in a role opposite of person, someone who is DeafBlind or somebody who's deaf or somebody with another disability, what kind of advice do you have for them specifically, Steven?
[Steven]: Don't be afraid to take that leap. As an actor you want to grow, you want to learn. And that's, I mean, that's the reason why I became an actor, is to tell these these stories and learn from these stories. You know what I mean? Sometimes you, as an actor, you'll get a role that might even feel uncomfortable that you have to play for yourself. You know what I mean? But it's like, you never know where you'll get out of that when you break past those, those like doubts that you could pit in your head as an actor. So it's just take that leap In general. Just take a leap.
[Lauren]: Great. Be brave. Robert, what advice do you have for other DeafBlind doctors?
[Robert]: This is Robert speaking. My advice would be, don't be afraid. Be open to communication and opening up that relationship. There's a whole other world out there develop that relationship. Communication comes naturally. It doesn't matter if somebody is deaf, blind, DeafBlind, or has a disability or anything like that. And even if you're acting, just be open to it, you can find a way to communicate with one another. You don't need to know the other person's language. You will find a way to naturally connect.
[Lauren]: Yes, exactly. We all have our place in this world and our place has storytellers and in our work as actors and we need to carry those stories forward. It's so important. Thank you, Jack? Do you have any advice for someone who works as an advocate and, part of the community?
[Jack]: I'm going to defer to my boss to Marlee because I think she says it much better than I can still say it at the same time, but I'm speaking for Marlee. It's the advice she always gives people is just believe in yourself because when you're not truthful with yourself, the other person will see that. You can tell like when you act, when you talk to little kids and for example, when you watch a child meet somebody who is in a wheelchair the kid will say, why are you in that chair? Why does your chair have wheels? And you don't, a lot of people will just say they won't establish eye contact or they'll just be afraid. It's a fear thing. It's a fear thing. And if you want to talk about what a person should do, when working with somebody who is deaf at the table, just be yourself, communicate, look me in the eye, just be open, be open, just be open. It's a simple thing. It's really simple. It's not, it's not brain science or whatever.
[Lauren]: Marlee what I want to go ahead and reinforce that. Be brave concept, be honest. This industry, I think it's critical to do so. Marlee, so as somebody with us being a seasoned performer writer, executive producer, what advice do you have to other Executive Producers who may not have exposure or experience to working with people who are deaf or have other disabilities?
[Marlee]: This is Jack interpreting for Marlee. That's a very good question. As an Executive Producer, working with a person who is not deaf. I think it's important to tell the person who's not deaf is to listen, to trust, to collaborate clearly. These are things we've already discussed today. When I get a script, for example, and I have an opportunity to read it, the first thing I'll do is I'll read it straight through and then I'll consult my gut, my instinct, and say to myself, is this something I want to do? Is this right? Is this something I want to act in? Is it something I want to produce? But I think again, it's all about listening to yourself and moving on a path where you can tell the story truthfully, where you can express it on the screen authentically and you can't just say, okay, fine. I'll do this. Okay, fine. I'll do that. If you have to put a little bit of thought into it and you can't take the words in the page for granted. It's very important to look at the story that's being told to see if it's being told authentically. And I mean, it's about the whole package. It's about the whole package. And if you feel you can deliver it and you can do it in the best way possible, then go forward with it, don't just do it for the heck of it.
[Lauren]: Thank you, Sue, as the CEO of HKNC, what advice do you have for other organizations, if a request comes in for them to support a project similar to this, what would you advise them to do?
[Sue]: This is Sue. I would say, go for it. I think that there is such an opportunity that would be missed and engage everyone across the organization to be a part of this exciting adventure be as inclusive as possible, provide the resources, whatever you can do to support it. For us, being outside our world, it actually engaged us in a way that it changed us. It really did. And it made our world bigger. Really. This is amazing to be here with all of you in this field right now, but to have Robert succeed and just paved the way as the first DeafBlind actor, and to be a part of this exciting creative work that Doug has completed, if you're lucky enough to have someone like Doug to collaborate with don't think twice, just, just go for it.
[Lauren]: Thank you. And Doug, you make it seem effortless. And that is not often the case for many people. So what kind of advice do you have for people who have an idea or a concept, or don't know what to do next? What can they do?
[Doug]: First? I'd like to start by saying, I second everything that's been said already, because there's been such great specific wisdom shared. And one thing I'd just like to add to it is the topic of trust has been brought up trust and fear. Jack, I know you mentioned that, and Marlee had mentioned that and really everyone across the board, and I think first and foremost, be someone who is worthy of someone's trust. So I think the work starts with ourselves. You can't have any meaningful collaboration if you're not someone who lives their life in a way where you are worthy of someone else's time and trust and collaboration. So for me, it started with, I honor what I'm asking for from an organization like Helen Keller Services from an actor like Robert and an actor like Steven, can I show up and be the person who's worthy of their time and their trust? And I think that comes down to that's in everything we do, but as a storyteller, I need to also trust this story. I want to tell because believe it or not, there's a lot of people who weren't really into the idea of Feeling Through before it was made, but I believed in it and I trusted myself and I trusted that I would seek out the people who I needed to make this with, to do it right. And so that's the advice, I know one of the things I love about Slamdance, as one of your Slamdance sayings is that it's a festival by filmmakers for filmmakers. Speaking directly to filmmakers, I would say, there's so much outside pressure to tell certain stories and certain ways and adhere to like what the industry is doing so other people will want to finance what you're doing or be into what you're doing. And I'm not saying that stuff isn't important, but really, it takes so much time and energy and investment. What are we really doing if we're not fighting for the stories that we know need to be told, and that we really want to tell. So for me, it comes down to like first and foremost, being someone living my life in a way that's worthy of other people's trust and fighting to tell the stories that I just feel in my gut and my heart needed to be told.
[Lauren]: And with that, we are going to close today's panel and our discussion about Feeling Through, I want to thank each and every one of our panelists for your comments, your thoughts, and really your authenticity and strength. I'd like to give the floor now to Taylor. And thank you for that beautiful introduction. I'd like to thank Slamdance for hosting this panel. And for anyone that hasn't yet seen Feeling Through and the supporting documentary, Connecting the Dots, I suggest that you do. Have a great day everyone.
[Taylor]: Hey, thank you so much. That was, yeah that was incredible. And just being, in this discussion and being able to be present and learn. To continue to learn about other communities and to really, place our intention in a way that is pure. And it's really from a standpoint of wanting to grow from it. And I think that that's such an important decision that has to be made from each person on your own authenticity and what you're bringing to it. I just want to say that I'm so proud and I'm glad that that Feeling Through and Slamdance hooked up and I think it's a great collaboration and I think it's a great example that while I feel like this should have been done a long time ago in terms of festivals, having something like this, like Unstoppable, we have it now and I expect other film festivals to step up their game. I mean, we have to live in reality. We have to make this accessible n so many levels and, the collaboration between a filmmaker and a festival is a very unique one, but having said that it's also every type of filmmaker and every type of film. And the ones that are misrepresented. You have to step forward and say, you know what, I've got your back and I'm going to do everything that I can in my power to hold a mirror up to the misrepresentations and the gaps. And I feel like so often in film festivals, particularly, in this last year more than any, I think that we can learn from, if you go into something and you're you're looking only at it from a competitive edge, you can't collaborate. If your ego is in the way you have to come from a point of really realizing your full potential from wanting to grow and wanting to learn. And I think that's, I mean, I know that's what we're doing, and I'm just grateful that we're able to do it together. So thank you all so much. And yeah, thank you for being a part of Slamdance Unstoppable.