[Tim]: Hi, I'm Tim Gray. Awards Editor at Variety. I'm in my Sixties. I have thin gray hair, wearing glasses, blue shirt, and I'm very honored to be here talking about Feeling Through. Which I think is a really good film. I also think it's an important film, and, I'm really honored to be talking with this group of people. So, but also I want to remind people that this has an Oscar nomination, which is a major feat and a well-deserved. But also, it's had, what'd you say, Doug? You're nearly 3 million viewers on YouTube.
[Doug]: That's correct.
[Tim]: Which is another astonishing achievement. So, that's Doug Roland, the writer-director. And the first question is for you, because I think this film was based on a real experience of yours. Yeah?
[Doug]: That's correct. Tim, thanks so much for leading the conversation today. And, before I start. My image description is I am a white male in my thirties. I have short dark hair, a little bit of a beard, and I'm wearing a blue button up shirt with a clean white background. And yeah, this was, you know, this is one of those stories that I say that I was gifted with. It was inspired by an encounter I had 10 years ago. And, though the film is fictionalized account. Like it's not meant to be a one-to-one at that. A lot of the central story beats of how these two characters interact were directly inspired by my real experience. Similar to as you see in the film, I encountered a man. In this case in real life, his name was Artemio. Artie is a clear nod to that. But just like in the film, Artemio was standing on a street corner by himself holding the exact sign that you see in the film saying, stating that he's deaf and blind and needs help crossing the street. And again, similarly to what happens in the film. I tapped him, he wrote to me in a notepad, a bus stop he needed. I took him there. A bus wasn't coming for a really long time. And I just, I wanted to let him know I'd sit and wait with him. And I, fortunately I had the instinct to take his palm and start tracing one letter at a time on it because I did not know any other way to communicate with him. And he understood what I was writing to him. And we ended up having a long hour-plus conversation that way me writing in his palm, him writing back in a notepad. And it was such a beautiful, memorable moment for so many reasons, you know. Not just meeting the first DeafBlind person I'd ever met, but also this very unique and intimate way to communicate with someone that I had just met. That was so personal. And obviously the communication through touch has that much more relevance during a pandemic where we can't touch each other. And then lastly, the fact that this man, Artemio was such a light of a human being. That he was so charismatic, and so warm, and so confident. That he just really stuck with me and we'd really formed her a beautiful connection that evening. And it would be many years later that it would turn into a film, but that was the real life inspiration behind it.
[Tim]: When you decided to make the film. Did it occur to you to not cast a DeafBlind person to say, well, maybe it'd be easier if I have a sighted-hearing actor?
[Doug]: You know, that's a great question. And I, now three-plus years into this experience of making this film. I know so much more about authentic representation and authentic casting. Largely, as a result of my collaboration with Marlee, our EP. And many other conversations I've been a part of, but at the time it was honestly an instinct for me. When I decided to make the film three years ago, which mind you was about six years after I'd written it. It just lived on my computer for about six years, before I had the feeling that it was the right timing. I literally just googled DeafBlind organization. I called the first number. Started talking to this man that picked up on the other end and just started telling him about my encounter. And on the spot I said to him, "I feel like I want to cast a DeafBlind actor. Is that crazy?" Because at the time I'd still only met our Artemio. And he said, "no, that's not crazy at all. You shouldn't reach out to the Helen Keller National Center." Which led to this now three-plus year partnership with them to make the film and exhibit it as these fully accessible screening events.
[Tim]: Well, what I hope to do today. Talk about the actual production of the film, and then open it up to the kind of bigger questions about authentic representation, and give people some lessons that we can learn. But before we get into even the production. I want to ask Marlee Matlin. You are a great actress and I don't say that lightly. You've had a great career. You're also a tireless activist and you're a very kind person. So I'm guessing you get hit up a lot from projects that want you to be a part of them. But what was it about this project when you signed on that? Cause I think you signed in after the film was completed, but what was it where you just thought, "I really want to be part of this."
[Marlee]: Thank you, Tim. Thank you for that lovely introduction. By the way, I want to give an image description. I'm a white woman in my fifties with long blondish brown hair. I have a lot of objects in the background. I have flowers, yellow flowers, and some family momentos and photographs. Tim, thank you for hopping on board and I consider you as a friend, and I'm a big fan of yours as well. When I was approached by Doug to look at the film Feeling Through, that was back in December. And it was actually during Hanukkah and Jack came over to the house. And he said we had just got approached and we got a call from Doug Roland, who directed and wrote this film or the short film. And we should take a look at it. So we sat down and I typically don't find myself in situations where I can't take my eyes off the screen. I mean, it was 18 minutes of amazing, well put together, touching story, moving experience of storytelling that I've ever seen. I was just amazed and I asked Jack, "what is it that Doug is looking for? I mean, because this film has been produced. I don't know what I could do." And Jack said, "what we'd like to be able to do is to be part of the team to support, making as much noise about this film as possible as executive producers." To point out how this film
[Marlee]: is one that we should all be talking about, in terms of inclusivity, authenticity, accessibility. It was just a no brainer for me after I saw the film. And at that moment, right there, it was important for me to be part of the team. So, I mean, it was an honor that he asked me and it was just a very simple story that became a phenomenon and it was eyeopening. And I've learned a great deal myself about the DeafBlind community as well.
[Tim]: I think anyone who sees this film, learns a lot, but also you make a good point, which I think is worth repeating. It's notable because we cast a BlindDeaf actor. But it's also, it's just good filmmaking. I mean, it's like really, really well done. So give yourself a pat on the back. But now, but is this true that this is the first case of a BlindDeaf actor, acting in a film?
[Doug]: Yeah, so, you know. We have definitely had a large, period of time to not just try to look into this, but also see what came to us. The only sources that I have learned of any instances of a DeafBlind actor in film and granted there are, some instances on stage, for sure. In fact, when I first googled this years ago. I learned of this theater troupe in Israel that had a number of actors with disabilities. And I believe at least one, if not more actors that were DeafBlind. I'm aware of another entity in the UK that does theater with people who are DeafBlind as far as on screen. The only mentions that I've seen thus far are apparently Helen Keller herself, made an appearance in a film about her life a number of years ago. And then I am aware of a DeafBlind filmmaker who is part of an ensemble cast in a short like six or so minute film that he made. So we usually at this point, qualify it by saying Robert's the first DeafBlind actor to have a starring role in a film. But really those are literally the only two, of any sort of, participation of people who are DeafBlind in film that I've heard over the course of, you know, three-plus years now.
[Tim]: Yeah, I think it's true. And, you know, I want to say both of those actors. You give really great performances, but I want to ask both of you. Robert first. Did you audition for this? Had you acted before? How did you come to this project? And then Steven, I want to ask you the same question.
[Robert]: This is Robert speaking. I was at work in the kitchen at Helen Keller and my boss, Dan had come over to me and called me over and he was on the phone and he motioned "that I'm on the phone". And he said, "they need you over in the other building." And I was like, "well, what's going on? Um, what did I do?" I had no idea why I was being called. I was like, "am I in trouble? Did I do something?" But nonetheless, collected myself, went over to the other building. Went into a meeting room and sorta just took a look around at all of these people. And I did not know what was going on, felt a little awkward, sat down. And then Doug explained what he was doing there. And I was shocked initially. And I was like, "seriously, you're making a movie?" And this is the first time a DeafBlind person is going to be in a film. So for me, I was really excited and the thought of doing this really got me going. So after that interview, I went back to work and just sort of thought about it all day long. And several days later, Doug came back and I got another summon. So I went back over and my boss was on the phone again. And I could see Dan shaking his head and I was trying to read his facial expression. And he said," Doug picked you." And I started just jumping for joy. I was so excited that I got selected. I could not believe it. Oh my God. Seriously? That's all my reaction was and that's how it all started.
[Tim]: It's a great start. Steven?
[Steven]: Thank you Tim, for facilitating this. On my image description. I'm a black male with a man bun and I have a black turtleneck on. Solid gray background. I was first introduced to the film from my manager. His name is Brandon. So he emailed me the script and I did a self-tape for it. And I remember, submitted a self-tape and then I got a call back. I heard. So I remember the callback was like, "finally, I'm able to audition in front of the director and casting director." So I remember going into the building, I actually saw Doug in the building, and I knew who he was because I like to look them up before auditioning for him. And I asked him, "well, where do I sign up", at him. He was like, "well, you just sign up over there." And then I remember just going into the audition. And we were like, kind of like mixing up, like who we're going to be the friends and all that stuff. It was pretty fun. And I just had no idea what I was walking into.
[Tim]: Now I think you had, you had had that acting experience, but I'm guessing you had never acted with a DeafBlind actor before. So were you, nervous about this going in or, what was that like?
[Steven]: Yeah, I mean, I'm always open to, like when it comes to this business and especially if you want to, be versatile and get into like any type of work. You just never know where you're going to get into. So I was like pretty open about, you know, the idea of this. And I had no idea I was going to be working alongside, an actual DeafBlind actor until I was booked for the role, and Doug told me. So yeah, and then the only thing I was just like, "are we going to meet each other before we get on set?" Like, those are like my main things. And that's just with anyone that I work with, I just feel like it's important to get to build some type of chemistry with that person before getting on set with them. And I was blessed to, had the opportunity to go to Helen Keller and meet with Robert. So, yeah, it's fun.
[Tim]: And Robert, because this was your first time acting. What was the biggest surprise about acting for you about the process of it?
[Robert]: Please forgive me. I forgot to give my image description. So I'm going to do so now. I'm wearing a blue t-shirt. I am a Hispanic male, American, white hair. I am deaf and legally blind. So. I think that the rehearsal at the Helen Keller National Center with Doug and Steven. That really helped prepare me. And that was sort of my crash course in acting and what to do, what to expect. Again, I know that Steven never had an experience with a DeafBlind person. So, you know, teaching him how to guide somebody or what those initial things are really helped set the stage for the foundation of what we were going to do. And I think that made everybody feel more comfortable to go and shoot the actual film. So I do think that that awkwardness in the beginning helps because it was a learning process for everybody. Including the interpreting and communications team, all of us to get on the same page for when we would actually shoot. So I would say that the preparation would definitely be needed and that helped a lot, make it as seamless as it was. So I think for me as a first time actor, listening to Doug's direction really helps make that come to fruition.
[Tim]: Doug, how did you give direction?
[Doug]: So, one of the necessities really of this experience was partnering with Helen Keller National Center, and working with the interpreting team that we had throughout this entire process. You know, Erin and Angela were a part of this conversation right now, are two interpreters that were a part of this, for now three years-plus, and having some other people on our team that were really, facilitated all the communication between Robert and I. And that was something that we, fortunately working with also the same interpreters that knew Robert already and got to know me well, really helped to make that communication even smoother, by the time we got to set. And you know, we'd also, I got to know Robert personally and got very clear with, his access needs. So that by the time we got to set, we were very, we had everything planned as far as how we were going to make it accessible. And that was a large part of pre-production for us.
[Tim]: Well, now Marlee.
[Marlee]: I'd like to add this if you don't mind following up with what Doug just said. Which is talking about accessibility on the set for actors who are deaf or disabled or DeafBlind. Whichever, individual you're working with. All these years having worked with actors like myself in Hollywood. I try to make people aware of the fact that production companies, studios. They need to understand how crucial it is and they need to pay attention to whatever it is an actor needs on a set in order to work successfully. And Doug did that. He got it. He reached out to organizations who are very aware of needs when it comes to accessibility and Helen Keller Services, Helen Keller National Center was the place that he went to. And you know, whether we're talking about a script, if you're doing a script that deals with a particular subject, and of course you reach out to an organization and you collaborate like you would any time. So the same thing happens with people who have particular needs as those who have disabilities are deaf or DeafBlind. I always say that interpreters for deaf actors are extremely crucial. A lot of times they think, "Oh, okay, God, there's a cost there. Or, oh gosh. There's gonna be more people on the set, or, oh gosh." I mean, they look at those issues of accessibility as an inconvenience, and it's not that. It's about making a good film. They're part of the crew. There are tools that you use to help make a film, run even more smoothly. And I think we need more Doug Rolands out there.
[Tim]: I think we need more Doug Rolands for lot of reasons. But to go back to that again, one of the popular excuses for not hiring a disabled person is that it's going to be much more complicated on the set. It's going to be more expensive. It's going to delay things. And I think. I don't want to put words in your mouth, Doug or Marlee, but I think anybody who's worked with a disabled person knows that that's not true. And that the benefits far outweigh, any kind of minor shifts.
[Marlee]: It really is. I mean, look. When I get to the set, the first day of shooting. The crew, typically, you know. Of course they know how it works. They know the procedure you have to go through on a set. All the things that they do, everybody knows what everyone's job is, what their role is. But when they see a deaf actor and an interpreter. They do at one point, they kind of look, "Oh, how is this? This works." Before, you know it though, everybody learns how to sign. Everyone knows how to communicate through an interpreter. They make it work. It takes maybe two days, max. It's just a simple process. I mean, you might have particular need that is a little bit extra, but everything went smoothly. I mean, wouldn't you agree Doug? Would you find the same thing that happened with you?
[Doug]: Yeah, absolutely. And beyond that, you know, in something that we've talked a lot about, in previous conversations and you know. Tim, you were alluding to it in how you were setting up this question, but moreover, you know. What Robert, being a part of this experience brought to, you know, this whole project. What the experience, how it made it so much more of a really deeply meaningful experience to everyone else who was a part of this, because they understood that they were a part of something that was groundbreaking in its own right. And something that was necessary and having this kind of representation for a community that historically hasn't had any. Robert, just who he is as an individual, you know, is someone who lights up any room that he's in, just because of his spirit. And also ultimately the way that the authenticity, translates to the finished product. I mean, though that so far outweighs any kind of additional logistical thing that you had to plan in. Filmmaking as Marlee was saying. That is filmmaking. Filmmaking is, figuring out tons of logistics. Like that's just kind of par for the course. So, it's not something that should be intimidating to anyone who makes a film. I mean, there's things that are so much harder than figuring out the basic accommodations and accessibility for an individual. That it really shouldn't be very intimidating. And there's plenty of people, that if it's your first experience that can come on board as a consultant or walk you through it. And again, the payoff is so much bigger than whatever the, you know, quote unquote extra investment is that. To say that it's worth it is an understatement.
[Marlee]: And Steven, I mean, look at Steven. I mean, having worked with a DeafBlind actor for the first time. Probably had a little bit of trepidation I'm sure, but it's the same for all of us when you're dealing with a new actor on the set. I mean, how wonderful it was, Steven ended up finding out, working with Robert, wouldn't you say so? I mean, because as an actor. When I work with another actor for the first time, we don't know each other, it's the same thing. I mean, we don't know if we're going to be compatible, but it's the same. It's, it works as it would be if you were working with any actor. Regardless of whether they were disabled, DeafBlind, or not.
[Tim]: Great. I am going to ask Steven and Robert. Because, you know, again. It was an unusual experience for both of you. Robert is first time actor. Steven, first time working with a DeafBlind actor, but was there a moment in rehearsals or filming when the DeafBlind just went out the window and it was just two actors working on a scene and it's just, okay. Let's get past all that other stuff and just make it about the scene.
[Steven]: Yeah. I mean, I could definitely say like. The moment when we were at the bus stop, was definitely all about the scene. And I remember the direction that Doug was giving. He was saying like, "you know, this is yours. You know, make it yours, you know what I mean? This is not for you to, you could take whatever you take from what I'm saying, but this is yours. So make it what you make it." And Robert and I just, at that bus stop. Like I remember even before that, I remember when we did the scene when we first met. I remember that scene. I remember actually rehearsing. So rehearsing and being on set, like Robert said. That whole trust that we gained for each other, you know, that was important. Those rehearsals that we had, those are important. And I think it's just important for any project that you step into to like, you know, rehearse and get those kinks out. So like when you're there on set, like you're just fully there and present and ready to go. It was, like that was definitely a moment where you weren't thinking about, you know, "Oh, you know, the assessability or anything like that everyone seems to talk about." You know, it was definitely a heart to heart thing that was going on. And I think that's one of the most important things to have when you're creating something this hard. You know, no shortcuts, just full heart in something.
[Marlee]: And I think Steven is right. We're not saying to ignore or to look over the fact that somebody is deaf or blind, or you're dealing with somebody who is black or of a different race or anything together. We're just working together as human beings, as actors. And we look beyond, you know, whatever it is that may seem to be a barrier.
[Tim]: I want to ask you, Robert about that scene, but Marlee in terms of heart and bringing heart to the scene. You know, there's a lot of people, and I know you've had experience with this. People with limited imagination, who would say what's a DeafBlind man playing a DeafBlind character. I mean, is that acting? And we all know that it is acting. But I wonder if you could talk about that for a minute about acting and about these performances?
[Marlee]: Well, I mean. I'm happy to talk about. Listen, I'm glad you brought it up because it's an important point. There are two things that we have to focus on. One. You know, I recall that one time, Rex Reed, after I won the Academy Award said that I was a deaf person playing a deaf person. So how was that considered acting? I mean, he thought that my winning was a result of a pity vote because how could I have been acting and gotten the Oscar? And I mean, even New York Magazine said, "well, she's deaf. She's never going to work in Hollywood again because she doesn't speak." I mean, they chose to define me and they defined who I was as an actor. So they didn't see or acknowledge my ability, my skill as an actor. And I have dreams of being an actor. I had dreams ever since I was a young girl to be an actor. So I, thank goodness, you know. I had a person like Henry Winkler told me never to listen to these kinds of people. You go beyond it. At the same time, right now, with so much awareness of what's going on of the noise that we're making through social media channels. We need to be able to understand that people out there don't necessarily have the knowledge, whether we're talking about deaf or DeafBlind, or disabled people. They want to be actors. That's fine. We can collaborate. We can teach each other. We can help them. And I know that there are plenty of. Well, not some. There are plenty who don't think outside the box, as you just said, and what do we do? I mean, either you approach them and you educate them, or you develop your own project. You go ahead and make one of your own, whatever it is. If you're a writer, write. If you're an actor, act. If you're a lighting person, light. I mean, I keep saying that authenticity is so crucial these days in all, in all aspects of the entertainment business. That, a deaf person or a DeafBlind person or a disabled person, shouldn't be considered a costume that an able-bodied person puts on and then takes off. We are people, not costumes. And I feel like I've been talking about this for seven days a week, 365 days of the year. But if they listen great. If they don't fine. We'll find someone else who will listen to us.
[Steven]: I think, if I could piggyback, I think like the best representation when it comes to it. It has nothing to do with race or anything at the end. Most of it is really culture, that's such a separate thing. Like culture is so important when it comes to like the authenticity of a performance. And you're always going to bring yourself, a part of you to each character. So culture is like something. I think it's important.
[Tim]: I also want to ask Steven and Robert. Did you, because your character is obviously, they both have a background, a lot has happened to them before this film starts and a lot happens to them after the film ends. Did you two talk about your characters of the backstory with Doug? Did you do it in your mind or did you just think, "let's concentrate on the script and what we have here"?
[Robert]: So one of the things that I added was, there was a point where it said that Artie was, that we added that Artie was on a date. And that's why he was standing on that corner at that moment. You know, we had to figure out why was he there? And that was just something that I did. So, you know, were we out dancing? Were we out doing whatever it is that we were doing? And so that was the backstory. That I was just coming from an evening that I had enjoyed myself and now meeting Steven, this was a sort of a new dance of communication. I was on my way home. So when you think, I'm standing at that street corner, really, what was I doing? My next move was thinking about this great time that I had with a girl.
[Tim]: Yeah, it's great.
[Robert]: I think the other thing that it really does promote is the independence of Artie as a DeafBlind person.
[Steven]: Yeah, I can agree. It was definitely a new dance when Robert and I, compared to when I was with my friends, because when I was with my friends in the scenes. That was just like Tereek's moment of like, you know, some type of feeling normal. You know what I mean? Like not being homeless around that time. And then leaving from that scene in the whole new dance when I met Robert was just like, everything that I was boiled up before meeting Robert was just like, it was just a different type of feeling I should say. You know what I mean? Like if this man could be so brave. It's like, you know, I can be brave as well. You know what I mean? It is more words that I can put into it, that it is hard for me to put into words. But, definitely to answer your question. Yeah, I did separately talk with Doug about my character and who I related my character to was actually a kid named Norickson, who I had met, years prior to this film. He was a homeless kid, who I met in the street. Looking for something to eat or get some coffee. He like stopped me in the middle of the street at night. And I told him, you know, I ask him how old he was. He was actually younger than I was. And I told him, you could stay with me for the night. And, you know, we had a conversation and everything. So, his essence is something that I carried with me into this project.
[Tim]: It worked, it works. Thanks. Doug, I want just a technical thing. In the film. Tereek takes Artie's hand and creates letters that spell out words. Is that based on real life?
[Doug]: Yes. So that was directly inspired by the real life encounter I had. And again, I now know that that's referred to as print on palm. It's not as often used in the DeafBlind community. But it is a communication, mode of communication that is sometimes used. Particularly in my case where I'm someone who doesn't know. I don't know ASL and therefore I don't know how to do Tactile ASL, which is how some people who are DeafBlind communicate, which is ASL signed into the hand. Which I, again, I didn't know at the time. But it's how Artemio, in real life, the gentleman that I met, communicates. For me, it was just on the spot 10 years ago when I met Artemio. It was just something that kind of intuitively came to me. I'd never thought to do that before. It's nothing that had ever occurred to me, but just kind of been racking my brain as far as figuring out how I could communicate something to this man. Artemio beyond just a pat on the shoulder. It's just something that came to me in the moment, that I again, was not familiar with at the time, but have now learned about since then.
[Tim]: Yeah. And once the film was completed, before COVID. "BC". In our years, BC. You had a Feeling Through experience where people would come. Tell us about that a little bit.
[Doug]: You know, so very early in this process, you know, during what it was essentially our very lengthy preproduction period of about eight months. Which was not only getting things set up to make the film, but also just this longer timeline for me to really get to meaningfully connect with the DeafBlind community and learn about the community and make meaningful relationships with the community. I was talking with someone at one point, who had mentioned in passing. "You know. You know what would be great? If you did a documentary after this. I bet that would be really helpful in educating people more about the DeafBlind community. But the way I heard it was, "Hey, why don't I make a documentary right now also?" And that's when I, when the supporting documentary that ended up becoming what we call "Connecting the Dots". We started shooting that. So we were rolling cameras throughout a lot of preproduction. We had raw, you know, cameras in the room. The first time we met Robert. We actually, part of the documentary is following this year long process of trying to track down Artemio, who I'd met years prior. And we had cameras around when we reunited with him. So we, I came out of this with both Feeling Through, and this short complimentary doc. You know, a companion documentary, "Connecting the Dots". Which together constitute about 45 minutes. And now during this process too, and now also still, you know, to this day. I've met and connected with so many amazing people in the community that I thought would be really beneficial for other people to hear from and be able to connect with directly. And that's when this third part formed, which was this panel discussion and Q&A with the DeafBlind community. So what ended up, what we created was this thing, this event called "the Feeling Through Experience. Which was this 90 to 100 minute event that included both films and this panel discussion. And really, fortunately, we got to do 14 fully accessible in-person events "BC", "Before COVID". You know, what those looked like, we knew that before we ever submitted to a film festival or did anything within the film industry. It was really important for us to bring it directly to the community that was at the heart of this and the DeafBlind community. So we created this fully accessible screening event that would have as many as 50 interpreters and support staff and an individual screening. So we could provide one-to-one accessibility. We would take people's accessibility requests ahead of time. And then, we would make sure that everyone was accounted for. DeafBlind, blind, low vision, hard-of-hearing. It was this really, I mean, you know Tim. I'm sure you've seen a fair share of films in your day, but you'll have a paradigm shift of your understanding of what it means to experience a film. When you look out onto a full audience and, you know, anywhere from a quarter to a third or more of the audience is experiencing the film through Tactile ASL, through Visual ASL, through audio description, through really large open captions on the screen. And it just really was such a beautiful way to kind of understand, or understand deeper what it means to experience a film. And we had a lot of, we were able to get and do 14 of those and then did a bunch virtually after the pandemic hit. And it's been an amazing way to share the film. Share more awareness and understanding of the DeafBlind community, and also create a platform for a lot more people in the DeafBlind and disability community to talk about a lot of the themes that come up in the film or around the film. And it's been a real gift of an experience to be able to share with so many people.
[Tim]: I have a two-part question for Robert. Now that the film's over, are you back at work at Helen Keller Center and in an era of COVID, because so much of your communication is based on touch, how complicated is that in the COVID era, or do you just have to have to not think about it?
[Robert]: Well, when you think about "before COVID", "BC". Yes, I was working, but as a result of COVID, the kitchen is closed. There are no students on campus at the Helen Keller National Center. So no. I'm not working presently. So we don't have that ability to actually touch to communicate because the center's closed in that capacity. I'm hoping that I'll be able to get back to New York and then, you know, catch up with my friends. But I am here now and I'm spending time with my family in Phoenix, Arizona, outside of Phoenix in Glendale. And I do keep in touch with people distantly, you know, from a distance and we try and, you know, make preparations for trying to connect via Zoom. But yes, right now my position. I've been laid off because of COVID. We'll see what happens when it's over.
[Tim]: Well. I also. I know a lot of people use a short film as a kind of calling card. I mean, filmmakers use it. I think this film is a great calling card for you, Doug. I also think it's a great calling card for the two actors to show what they're capable of, but I also think it's a good calling card for the DeafBlind community. To kind of raise awareness. Which I think is what you're all doing. Including Marlee, is to raise awareness of these things. Yeah?
[Doug]: Yeah. That's really accurate Tim. And, it's, you know, nice to be able to do multiple things with this film. That it's really become so much more than a film. Again, it's a testament to how this began. Directly in partnership with and alongside the community. The way that informed my understanding and how to put this out in the world in the best possible way and create it in the best way. But you know, to your point, even before we started sharing the film and before its success. I've always wanted to explore the feature version of this story. So that's something we'll actively be working on. And, it's also gonna be an amazing opportunity to continue to highlight the community on a larger platform and hopefully include more of the community in a longer form story. Yeah, it's been a real gift to be able to work on this.
[Tim]: Now, also. Marlee, first. Congratulations on your film Coda, which was a huge hit at Sundance. Probably THE hit. Biggest hit at Sundance. Between Coda and this film, Sound of Metal. The documentary Crip Camp. Things are better for disabled people than they were 10 years ago, but are they significantly better or are they in danger of slipping back again?
[Marlee]: I'm thrilled to pieces that the conversations are out there about these films. As you just said. People are noticing more, people are observing more. They're more or less. I mean. Deaf actors are working, you could say. With COVID of course. We need to understand that there are different needs and, you know. Focus on different aspects of how to get involved in film. But I think I'm pleased to see greater participation. Greater authenticity in the film business. At the same time. I want to be able to say, I don't want this to be this recognition to be the flavor of the month. I want it to go beyond this period. I want it to go beyond this. I don't want it to be the flavor of the year, even. So, I want it to be able to continue. I want deaf actors, DeafBlind actors, disabled actors to be able to have the opportunity to work, to display their craft. I think it's a matter of hustling, of communication, of being creative, of networking. This business is a cutthroat business. It's how I put it, but at the same time, we shouldn't let the barrier stop us from doing what we want to do and to achieve our dreams. I mean, if you know what I'm getting at, it's just a matter of just putting yourself out there.
[Tim]: To go back to authenticity, I mean, I think this is a very well-made film. If you had had a sighted-hearing actor in the role of Artie. It probably would have worked okay. But it just wouldn't have been the same film. So I feel like people are more aware of the importance of authenticity, but I'm not sure if it's ingrained at this point. Do you think it is?
[Marlee]: No, not a hundred percent, no. Not a hundred percent. I mean, yeah, it's not a hundred percent. We have a lot more work to do, and yet it's there, it's there.
[Tim]: Well, I want to know from each of you. If there is a filmmaker out there. You know; director, writer, or a show runner on television, who is thinking of casting a DeafBlind actor. What advice would you give this person? And if there's people out there who it never occurred to them to cast a BlindDeaf actor. What advice would you give those people?
[Marlee]: First of all, I would hope that they would look for authentic DeafBlind actors. That's important to at least give the opportunity for them to be seen. Doug?
[Doug]: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, beyond that, I would say. First of all, I would just zoom out a little bit and say. It's important to understand, why it's important to include people with disabilities. And I think that one of the major reasons is because then people with disabilities, the disability community constitutes anywhere from a quarter. A fifth to a quarter of our population. So when you, first and foremost, you start to understand that you're passing people with disabilities when you go walk out on the street. When you're at a coffee shop, when you're anywhere. And just to understand that it is really a part of the fabric of the world we live in. As storytellers and filmmakers, we have a responsibility to reflect that world accurately through whatever genre or story we choose. So right off the bat, to just understand that. And then also to understand that, deaf blindness. Although it hasn't, people who are DeafBlind have not been represented in storytelling or shown that much in the media. There's by certain estimates, as many as a million or more people in the U.S. alone who are DeafBlind. So you start to understand that this isn't some, you know. So such a low incident rate, that it would be such a rare thing for that person to be involved in a story. To know that there are a lot of people who are DeafBlind, who are out there in the world. And I would say just as far as specific advice? If you are, do what I did. Which is seek out collaboration with the community and be really humble and willing to learn every step of the way. I mean, we're three-plus years into this process, and I'm still learning literally every day, every time I meet someone or have a conversation. But also don't over-complicate it. Just understand that, it's important to have, stories are more interesting when they're inclusive. They're better stories when they're inclusive. They're more accurate to the world around us. And it's ultimately not that hard. Just make the decision to go, "okay, this is going to be something that I'm aware of moving forward." And there's plenty of people that will help you execute it. It's really not as complicated as it's made out to be sometimes.
[Steven]: I'll say that it's very possible. I'm an actor who's never been encountered with someone who's deaf and blind, and it's very possible to be on set with the actor who's deaf and blind. Yeah.
[Tim]: Robert.
[Robert]: Excuse me if I may, this is Robert. You know what I want executives to know. Whether they be directors, production companies. My biggest thing is just simply, don't be afraid. And I think that Feeling Through has really shown people, the community at large, who we are. And they may never have thought of us, other than Helen Keller, as part of the community and that we live independently and that we're here. So to partner and collaborate with places like the Helen Keller National Center, and to learn more about us, but recognize that we can be part of the film. We are part of your everyday life. We walk the earth, we go to work, we do everything that you do. So why wouldn't we be represented? And so I think that, again, you mentioned having a hearing actor, hearing-sighted actor do this. I don't think that that would work because they don't have the experience of who I am and what my experiences have been. So quite simply we are here, we are ready, we are willing and we want to be involved. And we want to just show people who we are. Invite us. Don't be afraid.
[Tim]: Robert, I think you should go on the lecture circuit. I think, a lot of people could benefit from hearing you speak. But also think you're making a really important point about fear because I've got a friend who's in a wheelchair and he said he finds people. They're like afraid it's contagious. That they're kind of afraid to get too close to him, that they might end up in a wheelchair themselves. Which again, it's totally irrational, but it's real. It's something that has to be overcome. I think that this movie is going to help people overcome a lot of things. But you know, you've all made really great points. But, you know, is there anything else you want to add about this film?
[Doug]: The last thing I'd like to say, and it's something that I think is come up kind of thematically in what we've been talking about, but kind of just kind of like call it out is, and I'll quote what I said the first time I ever met with Sue Ruzenski, the CEO of Helen Keller Services, who's my conominee. I said to her, I have a film that includes a DeafBlind character that I want to be played by a DeafBlind actor, but it's not a film about deaf blindness. It's a film about power of human connection that happens to include, two characters from very different walks of life. And I think ultimately that's been something that, as we've put it out on YouTube and had almost 3 million views in a little over a couple months and had thousands of people reach out to us in different ways. Both from the DeafBlind community and people who've never experienced or thought of the DeafBlind community and everyone in between. Ultimately, what we're most proud of about this story is that it's universal on what it touches on. It has a real reverence and respect for both of its primary characters. And that it's about, it's meant to remind us of what's much deeper and more resonant beneath our disability or our skin color or our age, or our background. And that's something that I think has been particularly resonant for people during this past year that we've been screening it where it's a trying time. And we've had a lot of people reach out. A lot that have really moved me to tears of people reaching out and then know, how vague terms saying that they had really hit rock bottom and came across this film. And it really helped turn things around for them. That it was the message that they needed to see and hear and experience. And that, to me, I think is the greatest gift when you're putting something like this out in the world to have it have that kind of impact and people have that kind of relationship with it. And that's, I think ultimately what we're most proud of how we really encourage and foster everyone to engage in these conversations and topics with each other so that we can all grow and learn from one another.
[Tim]: Well, again, I just finally I want to remind people that the film is available to watch on YouTube. Nominated for an Oscar. I feel like a lot of us are pulling for this film, but you guys are already a winner. I mean, I feel like the film is great. You all did great work in it and I think it affects people. So, thank you. Thank you all. I want to thank Aaron, Angela and Jack for being great workers during this conversation, but thank you all. And congratulations on doing great work.
[Doug]: Thank you, Tim.
[Marlee]: Thank you, Tim.
[Robert]: Thank you very much.